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August 17, 2016 at 6:43 pm #994339
Many of you know that I’ve been using, and recommending RayMar Panels for quite some time. I have painted some of my most successful paintings on RayMar panels, and I enjoy using them. Since I have retired from teaching my oil painting class at the rec. center, I have decided to do most of my oil painting on panels, rather than on stretched canvas, primarily because I believe a hard, inflexible surface to be more durable, and archival.
Now, the RayMar company is operated by two sisters, and a very capable plant manager, Liz, all of whom are very helpful, and friendly. Their business is primarily mail-order, and their ads appear in some very prominent art magazines. However, I live only a few miles from their main manufacturing plant, in Phoenix, so when I need some panels, I just call them, and they get my order ready the same day, or the next, and I just drive over and pay them for the panels.
They do not offer smooth panels; all of their panels have some sort of fabric, or paper laminated to them. Each panel has a Melamine backing–the same sort of hard, durable “plastic” of which many drafting tables are made.
The choices of fabric are many and varied. Personally, I use two types–I buy their acrylic-primed, smooth, portrait canvas panels, and I also buy their single-oil-primed-Claessens Linen panels. My sizes are usually 16″ x 20″.
They are now beginning to offer Arches Oil Paper, laminated to their hardboard panels. And, they just furnished me with a test sample of the quadruple-oil-primed, Belgian Linen. I an astonished at the smooth surface of this one ! I asked them if this was something that I am likely to fall in love with, and they said, “I hope so!”
Their fabric is not wrapped around to the back of the panel, but is cut off neatly at the edge of the panel, and their panels are of the precise dimensions, in inches.
I don’t have their complete price list, but I paid the following prices for the panels that I just bought.
All are 16″ x 20″ panels
Smooth, Portrait, Acrylic-primed Cotton on 1/8″ MDF panel………$12.32
Single Oil Primed #15 Claessens Linen on 1/8″ MDF panel………..$26.45
(I bought 4 of each.)I believe these to be very reasonable prices, and, for me there is no shipping costs, because I drive over to pick up my order. They have them packaged, and ready for me when I get there.
And, I can hardly wait to try out the sample of the quadruple-oil-primed Belgian Linen panel. The smooth surface is incredible, and I am eager to apply my first oil paint stroke to it!
Anyone interested can call, or write to RayMar for a price list, and then do a bit of comparison. They are wonderful people, and are very helpful.
wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
https://williamfmartin.blogspot.comAugust 17, 2016 at 9:36 pm #1256518I tried the sample set (only the cotton) and agree that Raymar makes excellent panels, the best I’ve ever tried.
But until some future time when people are buying my paintings for real money, I can’t afford to paint on them. I now use Blick Premier Cotton Canvas stretched canvases, very reasonably price online, but they look premium enough for an art gallery.
August 17, 2016 at 9:44 pm #1256513Bill:
In the ‘middle’ of my short painting career, between the small 5″x7″ and 8″x10″ paintings and my Buick painting, I started 2 still-lives that were both 16″x20″ on MDF with canvas glued to it.I did everything right, gessoing the sides/back, etc., and within 9 months or so, both of these paintings, which were on their way to becoming really good paintings, warped so much (a good 3/4 to 1″ from center) that I had to trash them.
Question is: how are these panels in regards to warping? Can you put a big ruler to them and see how square they are? I’m wary of using anything uncradled over 8″x10″, and I’d love to try them but 1/8″ MDF at 16″x20″ seems dangerous in terms of warping. Hell, I’ve even bought a slab of aluminum from an overseas supplier in expectation of painting on it, and IT was warped in both directions.
August 18, 2016 at 2:15 am #1256515Yeah, dimensions like that, at that depth, are ripe for warping.
August 18, 2016 at 12:43 pm #1256510Alan, they use a melamine backing which reinforces the dimensional stability, as well as laminating it to canvas (which also reinforces the stability). At 1/8th inch I could easily see these being stable up to perhaps 4ft square dimensions, beyond which point they would need cradling or reinforcement of some kind.
Interestingly they mark them as MDF, but most melamine backed panels I’ve located are sold as hardboard with melamine backing. Even the untempered versions are still called hardboard, which seems to be what this “MDF” actually is given the density and dimensional stability that they assure us of. It is possible the manufacturer they buy their board from before preparing it is in fact selling it as a name other than hardboard because of the stigma often associated with “Masonite” (hardboard) in the United States art world. This would make sense as a marketing term, given that the products are all made in a similar fashion with very comparable density levels.
- Delo DelofashtAugust 18, 2016 at 1:13 pm #1256507That Melamine backing seems to offer enough stability to the panel that it doesn’t seem to require any further cradling. And, it seems that MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard) is becoming a very over-used, and mis-used term. There seem to be SEVERAL densities of MDF, one of which is so loose, and porous that you can nearly see light through it. (That is an exaggeration, but not far from true.) The other densities of MDF are quite dense, and are of the quality that can be used for painting. The MDF that RayMar uses is every bit as dense as standard hardboard, judging by the appearance of the edge of the panel.
I have used 16″ x 20″ panels from RayMar for a long time, now, and I have experienced absolutely no warping, whatsoever, with them. I never checked them for squareness, but I’ve had no trouble fitting them into ready-made frames.
For those of you who may feel hesitant to buy some of these, just realize that I paid about $165 for 8 of these panels, and if I sold even one painting for $165, I would have paid for all 8 of those panels.:lol:
At least that may be one way to justify the cost of several of these panels.:thumbsup:
wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
https://williamfmartin.blogspot.comAugust 18, 2016 at 2:23 pm #1256519For those of you who may feel hesitant to buy some of these, just realize that I paid about $165 for 8 of these panels, and if I sold even one painting for $165, I would have paid for all 8 of those panels.:lol:
Would the buyer have bought the painting for the same price if it were on a Blick Premier Cotton Canvas (which you can buy for one-quarter the price)? I am sure the answer is yes.
In fact, in the low end of the art market ($165 for a painting is low-end), stretched canvas is most preferred by buyers. In high-end art galleries, gallery owners are aware that panels are more archival, but in the low-end, stretched canvas is associated with “real” oil paintings.
August 18, 2016 at 2:50 pm #1256511That is an interesting point of view Michael. . . though I am betting Bill just likes painting on the surface of these panels, and not because it helps them sell or not. Personally, the feel of stretched canvas is terrible, there is resistance from the surface under my brush as it pushes back towards me. The give of the canvas feels odd, even properly stretched it feels just off, and makes some strokes and effects much harder for me to achieve. As such, given an option, I will paint on panels over stretched canvas any day, and would think a great deal of other artists may feel the same as myself.
- Delo DelofashtAugust 18, 2016 at 4:25 pm #1256508That is an interesting point of view Michael. . . though I am betting Bill just likes painting on the surface of these panels, and not because it helps them sell or not. Personally, the feel of stretched canvas is terrible, there is resistance from the surface under my brush as it pushes back towards me. The give of the canvas feels odd, even properly stretched it feels just off, and makes some strokes and effects much harder for me to achieve. As such, given an option, I will paint on panels over stretched canvas any day, and would think a great deal of other artists may feel the same as myself.
Yes, I rather agree with that assessment. I have painted on stretched canvas for years, and when I tried panels, I just liked painting on them better. I am not one who appreciates the “spring” of the fabric that seems to pleasant to other oil painters. And, these canvas- and linen- covered panels have surfaces that appeal to me.
Would the buyer have bought the painting for the same price if it were on a Blick Premier Cotton Canvas (which you can buy for one-quarter the price)? I am sure the answer is yes.
Well, the answer is not necessarily, “Yes”. I suppose I could paint on any sort of inexpensive, canvas-wrapped cardboard panels that I could buy for 1/8th the price of a RayMar panel, but I would not want to put my serious work on such panels for a client, or buyer. I guess it has to do with overall integrity, or respect for my buyers.:)
wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
https://williamfmartin.blogspot.comJanuary 10, 2017 at 8:19 pm #1256520I absolutely love the Raymar panels. Just got some of the single oil primed linen ones for christmas. I really do notice the difference from painting on local craft store pre packaged acrylic primed stretch canvas. The paint just looks better its hard to explain. I just noticed yesterday that Dick Blick is selling some Raymar panels that I can’t even seem to find on Raymar’s site! And you can order just 1 from Blick instead of 5 packs or whatever. So I ordered a 9 x 12 extra fine quadrouple oil primed linen panel, can’t wait to paint on it!
January 10, 2017 at 9:56 pm #1256516I agree with you. The Raymar panels are really incredible. I do like the feel of canvas on the brush, but not such a fan of stretched canvas itself. Too many times of coming back to a painting and seeing it loosening up. Once I tried these panels, I knew they would be my go to surface (once I got to a point where I was painting more keepers than firewood).
Was running low on panel supplies so was looking through the sites for some deals. Stumbled onto a clearance at Blick. Think they might be even discontining them. 16 X 20 deep cradled panels for just over $6/piece if you buy more than 6. I’ll have to put on several coats of gesso but for that price it’s worth it.
After these are used up, I’m planning to stock up on some of the Raymar’s. Haven’t tried the linen yet but I will definitely be getting a couple of them along with the cotton canvas.
Before I sink into the big sleep, I want to hear, I want to hear, the scream of the butterfly. "When the Music's Over." The Doors.
C & C always welcomeJanuary 11, 2017 at 3:57 pm #1256509RayMar has recently added to their repertoire’ of panels, one that consists of quadruple-oil-primed Belgian Linen on their usual panel.
I received a small one as a sample, and I found that to be an incredible surface. It is extremely smooth, and the fabric weave is so fine as to be nearly indistinguishable.
The price is a bit more than their normal, linen panels, but it may be worth it.
wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
https://williamfmartin.blogspot.comJanuary 12, 2017 at 12:58 pm #1256521I have come to find that my 2nd favorite surface to paint on (after oil primed linen), is paper! I have been using Canson XL Oil/Acrylic paper. Honestly I feel that it would be pretty horrible for acrylic, because water causes it to warp and change shape, but it is wonderful for oils! It has a texture similar to linen, and it is very non absorbent, the oils sit on top of it quite nicely and look very lusterous. It can be painted on as is, does not need primed or anything. I love it and it is cheap. So…as a cheaper alternative to the beautiful Raymar panels, I am going to start mounting this paper on board. I am currently experimenting with exactly how I want to do it, but I did this one today. This is just a cheap, wood, cradled 10 x 10 panel I found in the art isle at wal mart. I mounted a piece of 11 x 14 Canson paper onto it using acrylic matte medium as the glue. I let it dry overnight with weight on top. Then in the morning I took an exacto knife and cut the excess paper off the edges. It seems to have come out quite nicely! I am very happy about this. I am thinking of buying some unprimed wood cradled panels from cheap joes for this purpose, and possibly getting a bunch of masonite locally as well. This is much cheaper than the linen panels, and also much easier (for me) than fighting with gessoing surfaces and whatnot. I like the paper surface much more than any of the gesso I have used anyways. Not sure how archival this is, but I would imagine that the paintings I do on this paper will last long enough for my purposes, and if I am doing a commission or a piece I know is very important, well than that is when I will spend the dough on the Raymar
January 12, 2017 at 1:24 pm #1256512t1barkode, I have painted on paper and find it a wonderful surface for oils. Mounting it to a panel like you have should result in a long lasting surface, many oil paintings that were done on mounted paper have survived in comparable condition to works done on canvas from similar time periods. Not long ago I stopped considering paper any different than canvas, it is all cellulose fibers held together with some form of glue sizing anyhow, whether woven or pressed. Adhering any flexible surface to a rigid substrate is likely to increase it’s longevity in similar storing conditions.
Bill, I’d like to again thank you for your analysis of Raymar panels, in particular seeing your work on them has shown the effect that oil priming makes in one’s painting. I have since started putting a thin coating of oil paint over my usual gesso priming and it has a definitively nice feel under the brush.
- Delo DelofashtJanuary 19, 2017 at 11:16 am #1256522Just got this in the mail today from DickBlick. As far as I can tell Raymar isn’t even selling this specific panel on their website right now. It is the L84C quad oil primed linen. I think its supposed to be a step up from the L64C. Can’t wait to paint on this.
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