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View Poll Results: Have you tried Oil painting?
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  #61   Report Bad Post  
Old 05-22-2002, 06:54 AM
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mf.sutton mf.sutton is offline
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Terrymor, welcome to our community, aren't acrylics great, such good bright colours, I hope you hurry and post some of your work for us to see - mike
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Old 05-22-2002, 08:58 AM
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I took a quick scan of the chemical contents of one brand of gouache, see http://www.holbeinhk.com//hgouatec.htm.

The ones I recognize appear to be non-organic minerals or mineral compounds of some kind.

Certainly white using titanium oxide would be opaque, but I wonder if some non-organic, mineral based pigments are opaque by their own nature.

I remember reading about this in one of my books. If I find the book I will get back.
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Old 05-22-2002, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Studio224
Still... I am puzzled because my watercolor tubes of W&N are very pigmented but.... are not opaque!

Anne-Claire, I think that's just the difference in the way they are used. You usually don't use watercolors full-strength or thickly at all. If you did, the opaque pigments (cadmiums, for example; cerulean; others I can't think of now) would cover the paper like gouache does. But watercolors are not made for that. You can also thin down gouache the way you do watercolors, but gouache is made to be used more thickly, so that even the transparent pigments in gouache are rather opaque.

Does that make sense?

Victoria
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Old 05-23-2002, 03:37 AM
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Yes it does... and maybe the pigments are not milled as finely as the one for watercolors.
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Old 05-23-2002, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by VictoriaS

I'm sure you know more than I do. But I do know that the gouaches I use (Schmincke and Winsor & Newton) are not mixed with white.
Victoria

Hi,

as I understand it, the principal formulation of gouache includes a heavy pigment load (the pigments being the same as for water colour) and the addition of a small amount of chalk to increase opacity, and tree gum as a binder. The pigments need not to be grinded as fine as in water colour because the paint is not designed to be used in washes etc. but as a thicker layer. The larger particles may add to the increased opacity.

The WN and Schmincke artist grade gouaches seem to lack the chalk (as far as I deduce this from their web sites). As a consequence their colour charts mention the opacity/transparency of the paints, and they have a couple of semi-transparents in their gouache lines.

cheers

martin
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Old 05-23-2002, 12:25 PM
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Just as I suspected, Martin. Thank you.

Victoria
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Old 05-24-2002, 01:54 PM
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Paul J.S., FCM Paul J.S., FCM is offline
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Thanks. That "clarifies" an "opaque" subject for me. I never looked at the chemical composition, just accepted the "authorities" on the subject. If I didn't have gouache to hand,
I just added white or marble dust (always available) to watercolor to get the effect.
I guess if I can still learn, I'm not old. Or is that a "dog"?
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Old 05-26-2002, 08:31 PM
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hey,
what attracts me to acrylics.....hmm.....I like the fact that acrylics dry fast and the way that they are thinner than regular oil.....I also just like acrylics for what they are....(if that means anything....)
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Old 05-27-2002, 12:23 PM
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zorch zorch is offline
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I'm not exactly sure why there's a debate over oils vs. acrylic in the first place... they're two completely different mediums and both have their appropriate places. I am primarily an oil painter myself. Until recently I hadn't worked in acrylics for several years. I received a commission two months ago for a mural which will be installed in a gourmet grocer. The client had a concern about putting oil-based materials into an area that is adjacent to food preparation...and I agreed with her. So the mural is being painted in acrylic instead of oil. I'm two panels into a four panel mural and enjoying the process immensely. Sure the paint dries (much) faster than oil, but after about the first two hours of diddling around to sort of "test the waters", the paint and brush strokes started to flow naturally and I fell into the "groove" with the acrylic medium. The painted surface is much more matte than oils and so I find myself keeping an eye on shadow detail in a way I don't have to do with oils, and it took a little getting used to the short dry time since I like to muck around with the thick oil for a while. But the acylic is an appropriate choice for this particular subject (large fruits and vegetables) and I'm able to scumble, glaze, add in impasto...whatever--in a short time frame. The closest I could come to drying this fast using oils would be if I added Cobalt dryer...and that's a recipe for disaster usually!
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Old 10-09-2002, 10:07 AM
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wow all this information - I started painting in oils in April after I was given a beautiful set and easel for my birthday from a very dear friend, who had listened to me go on and on about wishing I could do something 'arty' ... like I did many years ago at school!

Anyway, I was having a great time using oils - until I found out I am pregnant ... which means I must stop oil painting. I'm now interested in painting in acrylics.

A few questions:1. In oils I tend to use them straight from the tube and blend on the canvas.... can I do that with acrylics?

2. I used a limited palette with oils - do I need to buy more colours in acrylic or can I mix them, like oils?

Very basic questions I know - but I haven't bought any yet and I was wondering if anyone can help me before \I give up my cash!

Thanks !
I'll browse through the forum now and see what acrylics produce!
Regards
Jayne
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Old 10-09-2002, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jayjay

Anyway, I was having a great time using oils - until I found out I am pregnant ...
- Good luck!
Quote:
Originally posted by jayjay

A few questions:1. In oils I tend to use them straight from the tube and blend on the canvas.... can I do that with acrylics?
you can - if you are quick ;-) -- Acrylics dry much faster than oils, so especially when you are using thin layers you might get in touble. There are retarders ( I never tried one), but you will never get an "open time" like in oils. One technique is to mix small amounts, get this onto the canvas within a few minutes, and until you decide what next and mix your next sample, the canvas is dry already ...
Quote:
Originally posted by jayjay

2. I used a limited palette with oils - do I need to buy more colours in acrylic or can I mix them, like oils?
They love to be mixed

Cheers and welcome

martin
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Old 10-09-2002, 03:23 PM
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I started in oils because it was more traditional I suppose. Right now I'm painting in oils for one technique and acrylics for another. I'm not sure if I should be doing this or if it's fair to either medium. Drying time and paint consistency are factors too. I don't really prefer one over the other. I collect all kinds of mediums whether I use them or not. I just have to have them!
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Old 10-14-2002, 08:26 AM
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I used to think that oil wasn't right for my temperament - I hated to wait to finish a painting. So I tried Acrylics and it dryed thoo darn fast! Arrrrrrrrrgg! The frustration! (No I never tried retarders )

So I quit. And did something else for a couple of years. But I'd really wanna try and paint again - I'm sure I've matured since my last paintings. Exactly what results could one hope for with retarders and mixing with mediums when using acrylics?
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Old 10-14-2002, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jayjay
Anyway, I was having a great time using oils - until I found out I am pregnant ... which means I must stop oil painting. I'm now interested in painting in acrylics.
Jayne

The main difference between acrylics and oils, of course, is the binder. Pigments remain the same. You should know that acrylics aren't entirely "safe" either, as they contain formaldehyde and a substance similar to ammonia. Oils, on the other hand, use linseed oil (flax seed oil) as the binder, which is purported to be one of the healthiest oils your body can get next to.

I take it what you're really concerned about is the solvents often associated with oils. I use solvents as little as possible, if at all. You CAN paint with oils without using solvents.

You can thin the paint using a little more linseed oil, walnut oil (which I love), or oil of spike (like lavendar oil). Or better yet, just paint straight from the tube and let your brush do the thinning. I clean my oil brushes at the end of a session with regular bathroom liquid soap and water, nothing else. Comes perfectly clean, without solvents. There are also soaps, like Ugly Dog, made specifically for cleaning oil brushes. You can also rinse your brushes off in a jar of vegetable oil, then wipe clean. This works good too.

There are also water soluble oils. They thin with water and can be great for laying in an underpainting, then using regular oils straight from the tube over top.

Just some thoughts before giving up the ship.
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Old 09-01-2003, 11:08 AM
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Attention Oil Painters, use acrylics for a year then go back to your oils and you will find your oil paintings will have improved immeasurably. No time to fiddle around and make mud and you'll find your decision making process will have picked up speed.

Oils for me were like chemistry in which I got a D. Acrylics---- water only. You don't have to buy all those bottles and cans of stuff and read books about famous artists' mixes and formulas and on and on. Just turn on the tap.

I've read all the forgoing pluses for acrylics and can't remember a bad one.

Howard

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