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Old 05-16-2002, 08:32 AM
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perry31415 perry31415 is offline
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I've never used gouache, probably because I won't buy something in a store I'm not sure how to pronounce :-)

What I do know is that it is water soluble and opaque.

From the art dictionary at http://www.artlex.com/

"A heavy, opaque watercolor paint, sometimes called body color, producing a less wet-appearing and more strongly colored picture than ordinary watercolor. Also, any painting produced with gouache."

PS. The only dumb question is the one not asked.

Tim
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Old 05-16-2002, 08:36 AM
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perry31415 perry31415 is offline
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I've never used gouache, probably because I won't buy something in a store I'm not sure how to pronounce :-)

What I do know is that it is water soluble and opaque.

From the art dictionary at http://www.artlex.com/

"A heavy, opaque watercolor paint, sometimes called body color, producing a less wet-appearing and more strongly colored picture than ordinary watercolor. Also, any painting produced with gouache."

PS. The only dumb question is the one not asked.

Tim
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Old 05-16-2002, 10:14 AM
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Oh... I see... and the Artlex says this for acrylic:

" Synthetic paints, with pigments dispersed in a synthetic vehicle made from polymerized acrylic acid esters, the most important of which is polymethyl methacrylate."

So it's opaque watercolor (gouache) and synthetic paint (acrylic).

Got it! Thanks,
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Old 05-16-2002, 10:38 AM
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Think of acylic paint as being basically a purified Elmer's Glue with pigment
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Old 05-16-2002, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by perry31415
Think of acylic paint as being basically a purified Elmer's Glue with pigment
LOL!!!!
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Old 05-16-2002, 10:56 AM
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Keith Russell Keith Russell is offline
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Greetings:

It's my understanding (and I may have said this before) that the pigments used are identical, and that the only difference between oils, acrylics, and watercolours, is the medium used to bind the pigment.

(This may even be true of guache, as well. I'm not sure about enamels, tempera, inks, and dyes.)

If anyone can verify this, or has more info about the similarities or differences in the pigments used in various types of paint, I'd love to learn more about it.

Keith.
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Old 05-16-2002, 02:54 PM
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Paul J.S., FCM Paul J.S., FCM is offline
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Gouache (g-wash) is watercolor with white added to the colors, making them more opaque.
Every paint or ink consists of a MEDIUM, which binds the PIGMENT to the support, and a DILUENT which makes the medium paintable. Think Glue, Color and Solvent.
Pastel is pigment bound with oil or fat and/or wax with little diluent/solvent. The solvent for regular pastels is water; for oil pastels it's linseed oil.
Watercolors use tree gum for medium. Acrylics use a plastic. Oils use oils, naturally. Encaustics use wax.
Some pigments are minerals, some are dyes, some are dyes precipitated on a mineral base, some are manufactured, mineral like compounds. They are not all compatible with all media. Some pigments used with oils will react with acrylic unfavorably. Some pigments, e.g. lead, are so toxic that they are no longer used.
So pigments will be substituted to get certain colors when mixed with a particular medium.
Because acrylic polymerizes (i.e. forms long chain molecules) as it cures, it makes one of the strongest binders available. Since the development of polymers, scientists have discovered that that is the process by which linseed oil becomes linoxin. The oil takes oxygen from its surroundings and forms long chain molecules. This process is slower with oils than with acrylics.
It also explains why oil breaks down papers and canvas if not isolated from the support with a layer of gesso. When it takes oxygen from the fibers of the support, their protein molecules break into shorter segments.
Maybe this is more than you wanted to know. But there may be a quiz on this, next class.
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Old 05-16-2002, 05:30 PM
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Thank you Paul for this explanation, very very interesting and synthetic! I am indeed enlightened by that... Sorry for taking the thread away from its first objective, acrylics vs oils...
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Old 05-21-2002, 03:31 PM
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Paul J.S., FCM Paul J.S., FCM is offline
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It's not really taking it away from the original discussion. Another advantage to acrylic is that it can be combined with almost every other water-medium. I've used it with egg tempera for instance.
The use of acrylic gesso for a ground is almost universal now, because it's safer and will bind almost any medium painted over it.
Those who have experienced being able to scrape oils off acrylic probably painted oil on top of straight acrylic or acrylic/latex paint and didn't wait the whole year it takes linseed oil to cure into linoxin. You can scrape oil paint off an underlayer of alkyd resin if you don't wait for it to cure.
Acrylic cures from the inside out. Oil dries from the outside in, then cures. In both cases, drying encompasses the evaporation of the diluent. Curing is the process of polymerization.
The only medium I've found that I couldn't use with acrylic is casein distemper. The mix almost instantly coagulates.
Has anybody else experimented with acrylic or oil combinations with other media?
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Old 05-21-2002, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paul J.S., FCM
Gouache (g-wash) is watercolor with white added to the colors, making them more opaque.

I'm sure you know more than I do. But I do know that the gouaches I use (Schmincke and Winsor & Newton) are not mixed with white.

Victoria
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Old 05-21-2002, 04:46 PM
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Paul J.S., FCM Paul J.S., FCM is offline
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The gouache you purchase from the colourist already has the white mixed in. Casein and tempera are more opaque due to their media.
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Old 05-21-2002, 04:58 PM
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No, with the exception of maybe a yellow one, they do not contain white.
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Old 05-21-2002, 05:19 PM
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Paul J.S., FCM Paul J.S., FCM is offline
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A dictionary says:
gouache

PRONUNCIATION: gwäsh, g-äsh
NOUN: 1a. A method of painting with opaque watercolors mixed with a preparation of gum. b. An opaque pigment used when painting in this way. 2. A painting executed in this manner.
ETYMOLOGY: French, from Italian guazzo, from Latin aquti, watering, from aqutus, past participle of aqur, to fetch water, from aqua, water. See akw-- in Appendix I.
So maybe I'm wrong. How do you make the watercolors opaque?
Ralph Mayer said it was done by mixing white pigment or chalk with transparent watercolors.
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Old 05-22-2002, 03:41 AM
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My gouache doesn't look like it has white in it either, but it's very much opaque. So the mystery remains, what do they mix in it to make it opaque? Gum Arabic doesn't do that. Still there is something in it, because when it dries it has sometimes a "powdery" feel that watercolor hasn't. I too thought there was chalk in it.

I went to Winsor&Newton site, here is an excerpt:
"Can I make my own gouache by adding white to my water colours?

No. The use of white in water colour is a technique rather than a product. Winsor & Newton Designers' Gouache is opaque as a result of the high level of pigmentation. Unlike other manufacturers' ranges, chalk is not used to produce opaque effects, which would only result in less brilliant colours and dull colour mixing."

So it would seem that it depends greatly on the manufacturer.

Still... I am puzzled because my watercolor tubes of W&N are very pigmented but.... are not opaque!
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Old 05-22-2002, 06:38 AM
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terrymor terrymor is offline
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Dear,
CHClements,

Like you, and others, after years of suffering horribly headaches because of the paint fumes and turps (even when using the odor-less ones), finally to my chagrin, I have give up oil painting.
Alternative? Acrylics.
I am now straggling with the medium, and I have finished my very first small landscape painting.
It has not been easy, mind you, the fast dryness and all that, used as I am to oils.
Yet to my amazement, the painting has a brilliance and clarity that I never was able to get with oils!!!
I would like to take the opportunity to thank wet canvas and all the people here that are sharing their painting ideas with each other.
I am learning about techniques like gloss mediums, etc.. and this is saving me a lot of troubles and money.
I will be showing you my en devours as soon as I learn how to post here photos of my new (and previous) paintings.
Thank you again,

Terrymor
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