WetCanvas
Home Member Services Content Areas Tools Info Center WC Partners Shop Help
Channels:
Search for:
in:

Welcome to the WetCanvas forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit our help center.

Go Back   WetCanvas > The Town Center > Café Guerbois
User Name
Password
Register Mark Forums Read

Salute to our Partners
WC! Sponsors

Our Sponsors
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #136   Report Bad Post  
Old 02-01-2020, 03:08 PM
JohnEmmett's Avatar
JohnEmmett JohnEmmett is offline
A Local Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,424
 
Hails from United States
Re: Eye Candy vs Profound Meaning

Quote:
Originally Posted by john
Sort of dignified pornography.

No…
__________________
Artist John Emmett
If we ignore the need of beauty, we find ourselves in a spiritual desert. -Roger Scruton

Last edited by JohnEmmett : 02-01-2020 at 03:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #137   Report Bad Post  
Old 02-01-2020, 07:50 PM
john's Avatar
john john is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
L.I., New York
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,053
 
Hails from United States
Re: Eye Candy vs Profound Meaning

I'll walk, back the porn description but both paintings are certainly sexually charged, both on the surface and in historical context. Lucretia had been raped. The knife is phallic. The milkmaid at that time was a loose object desire and also of dread that she would destroy the family. The milk is poured with sensuality. The atmosphere is soft warm and inviting.

Hey, no surprise. Male artists and male art admirers are fascinated with female sexuality. Thus those paintings get made, and admired.

Of course, the argument could be made that a woman is a profound thing and the most worthy of veneration. They make the babies and pour the milk.



And both paintings do the light thing pretty well.
__________________
My Gallery
Reply With Quote
  #138   Report Bad Post  
Old 02-01-2020, 08:59 PM
musket's Avatar
musket musket is offline
A WC! Legend
Grafton, NH
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 23,646
 
Hails from United States
Re: Eye Candy vs Profound Meaning

You should investigate Vemeer's life, and the history of the Netherlands at the time, before jumping to such facile conclusions. The overall feel of his domestic scenes is tranquility, something notably absent in his life. The times were turbulent, and so was he.
__________________
“The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure it will kill you too but there will be no special hurry.” ~Ernest Hemingway

Last edited by musket : 02-01-2020 at 09:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #139   Report Bad Post  
Old 02-01-2020, 10:04 PM
stlukesguild's Avatar
stlukesguild stlukesguild is offline
A WC! Legend
A large urban setting in the Mid-West
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,669
 
Hails from United States
Use to denote nudity/mature subject matter Re: Eye Candy vs Profound Meaning





... both paintings are certainly sexually charged, both on the surface and in historical context. Lucretia had been raped. The knife is phallic. The milkmaid at that time was a loose object desire and also of dread that she would destroy the family. The milk is poured with sensuality. The atmosphere is soft warm and inviting.

Hey, no surprise. Male artists and male art admirers are fascinated with female sexuality. Thus those paintings get made, and admired.

Of course, the argument could be made that a woman is a profound thing and the most worthy of veneration. They make the babies and pour the milk.


As I stated earlier:

"Profundity" speaks to the idea of "meaning"... and "meaning" is something we the audience bring to a work of art. Meaning changes from viewer to viewer because we each bring our own unique experiences, prior knowledge, preferences, biases, etc...

My interpretations are quite different than yours. The Lucretia story comes from Rome and tells of the rape of the daughter of of a Roman prefect, Lucretia, by the son of the last Roman King, Tarquin. Lucretia reports of her rape to her father and pleads for justice/vengeance. After this is promised, she takes out a dagger and stabs herself in the heart. This event resulted (in myth) in the rebellions that ended the Roman monarchy and the birth of the Roman Republic.

The narrative of Lucretia involves rape... a sexual violation... carried out by a decadent aristocracy against a noble and faithful woman... but the painting does not speak of eroticism IMO. Rembrandt was a master of expressing very real human emotions... I've long thought of him as the Shakespeare of painting. In his painting of Bathsheba, which inspired other artists to an imagery of eroticism and voyeurism... a beautiful young girl oggled over by both David and the audience..., Rembrandt chose a more mature woman... a noble and faithful wife... deep in thought... one can sense her sadness... well aware of the ramifications of David's illicit "love" for her:



Rembrandt's painting of Lucretia is just as seeped in thought... feeling... and empathy for the victim. To me, it is a tragic image. Lucretia's eyes are welled up with tears. The exquisitely painted flesh and white lace of her breast soon to be stained with her blood. The exquisite glittering gold gown and white breast reinforce the horror soon to come through contrast... in a manner not unlike the comic graveyard scene in Hamlet just before the tragic death scene... or the contrast between the glittering fashions of Goya's royal family... and their ugliness... in both terms of physicality and personality:



By the way... Rembrandt's choice of a limited color range is due in part to the fact that he is a tonal painter... emphasizing a strong contrast of light and dark as well as texture. Adding a broad color range to this often leads to a very garish painting. Rubens was but one of a few artists who could pull this off:



But even Rubens fails to achieve the somber nature of Rembrandt's limited palette.

Another reason for Rembrandt's limited palette was the fact that he was employed by Dutch Protestant patrons who did not allow the "ostentatious" display of "sensual" saturated colors as embraced by the Catholic patrons of Rubens' Belgium or France. Vermeer's use of saturated colors may have been part of the reason for his limited success as an artist in Protestant Holland.

Speaking of Vermeer, I fail to see any eroticism in this particular painting... and I am certainly not one to deny or embrace eroticism in art. There are a number of Vermeer paintings that certainly do deal with eroticism...


-prostitution...


-scenes of seduction...


-love letters and absent lovers... etc...

As Musket suggested, Vermeer's paintings center upon the sort intimate domestic dramas that he was well acquainted with (and had access to) in his home with 12 daughters, a wife, and mother-in-law.



Milkmaids in a bucolic landscape painted by Boucher certainly take on an erotic fantasy nature... but Vermeer's burly maid in the humble kitchen? I'm sorry, but I don't see it.
__________________
Saintlukesguild-http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/
"Beauty is truth, truth beauty—that is all ye know on earth and all ye need to know." - John Keats
"Modern art is what happens when painters stop looking at girls and persuade themselves that they have a better idea."- John Ciardi

Last edited by stlukesguild : 02-01-2020 at 10:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #140   Report Bad Post  
Old 02-01-2020, 10:48 PM
musket's Avatar
musket musket is offline
A WC! Legend
Grafton, NH
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 23,646
 
Hails from United States
Re: Eye Candy vs Profound Meaning

Vermeer's life was a mess. In his serene domestic scenes, he painted what he didn't have, peace of mind.
__________________
“The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure it will kill you too but there will be no special hurry.” ~Ernest Hemingway
Reply With Quote
  #141   Report Bad Post  
Old 02-01-2020, 11:03 PM
JohnEmmett's Avatar
JohnEmmett JohnEmmett is offline
A Local Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,424
 
Hails from United States
Re: Eye Candy vs Profound Meaning

I suspect Vermeer had glimpses of peace. Defined by tumult…
__________________
Artist John Emmett
If we ignore the need of beauty, we find ourselves in a spiritual desert. -Roger Scruton

Last edited by JohnEmmett : 02-01-2020 at 11:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #142   Report Bad Post  
Old 02-02-2020, 02:22 PM
Keith Russell's Avatar
Keith Russell Keith Russell is offline
A WC! Legend
Kansas City, Missori
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 34,384
 
Hails from United States
Re: Eye Candy vs Profound Meaning

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlukesguild
The common thread of the two paintings above is the obsession of male artists over female power and sexuality. Sort of a dignified pornography.

Absolute BS.

I'm going to draw the line at "absolute"--but I will agree that "sort of a dignified pornography" is nearly absolute crap.

To hold that view is to force such a narrow view of the work as to be almost untenable, and broaden the definition of "pornography" to include almost anything.
__________________
Forcing the waveform to collapse for two decades...
http://www.syntheticskystudios.com
Hilliard Gallery, Kansas City, "Small Works", December 2019
Reply With Quote
  #143   Report Bad Post  
Old 02-02-2020, 04:32 PM
john's Avatar
john john is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
L.I., New York
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,053
 
Hails from United States
Re: Eye Candy vs Profound Meaning

Heh heh, I knew that would stir the pot.
__________________
My Gallery
Reply With Quote
  #144   Report Bad Post  
Old 02-03-2020, 09:02 PM
JohnEmmett's Avatar
JohnEmmett JohnEmmett is offline
A Local Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,424
 
Hails from United States
Re: Eye Candy vs Profound Meaning

Art is in contrast to the low.

In principle.



Craig Mullins
__________________
Artist John Emmett
If we ignore the need of beauty, we find ourselves in a spiritual desert. -Roger Scruton

Last edited by JohnEmmett : 02-03-2020 at 09:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #145   Report Bad Post  
Old 02-03-2020, 09:22 PM
stlukesguild's Avatar
stlukesguild stlukesguild is offline
A WC! Legend
A large urban setting in the Mid-West
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,669
 
Hails from United States
Re: Eye Candy vs Profound Meaning

__________________
Saintlukesguild-http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/
"Beauty is truth, truth beauty—that is all ye know on earth and all ye need to know." - John Keats
"Modern art is what happens when painters stop looking at girls and persuade themselves that they have a better idea."- John Ciardi
Reply With Quote
  #146   Report Bad Post  
Old 02-03-2020, 09:59 PM
musket's Avatar
musket musket is offline
A WC! Legend
Grafton, NH
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 23,646
 
Hails from United States
Re: Eye Candy vs Profound Meaning

I've always loved that one.
__________________
“The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure it will kill you too but there will be no special hurry.” ~Ernest Hemingway
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:29 PM.


© 2014 F+W All rights reserved.