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Old 08-24-2019, 07:56 PM
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WFMartin WFMartin is offline
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Re: Oil ground...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard P
Bill: I think some acrylic mediums are less absorbent then gesso and could be tried as well

Yeah, you're correct. Actually, some acrylic GESSOS are less absorbent than other acrylic Gessos.

For example, Grumbacher 525 Acrylic Gesso, and Liquitex Acrylic Gesso are both quite absorbent, and they have a tooth, while Golden Acrylic Gesso is not, and does not have a tooth. Also, the first two are very sandable, while the Golden is not as sandable.
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:04 PM
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Re: Oil ground...

Sorry: double post.
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Old 08-25-2019, 05:02 AM
AllisonR AllisonR is offline
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Re: Oil ground...

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Originally Posted by budigart
As for the toxicity of lead paint, the answer is simple. Don't eat the stuff and use care in handling. I have used it daily for more than 30 years and I have yet to slip out at night to run with wolves, and widows and orphans in my small town go unmolested.

This is just too funny to ignore. Plus I agree, don't eat lead, don't rub it into an open wound, and don't sand it- it's the fine particles that are a problem.

Back to topic - I don't think anyone is advocating extremely slick, beading, non-adhering surfaces. Nor is anyone (ecept maybe JCannon ) advocating so absorbent that it sucks all linseed oil out of every next layer until there is suck sink-in that burnt umber becomes light pink grey. Most want something in between. Enough absorbency so the paint bonds, but not so much that everything becomes dreadfully dull.

Everyone has their own reasons. I originally used some Goldens acrylic gesso, but there was too much sink-in and dullness. I also tried a Williamsburg oil primer, but I'd have the opposite problem, beading by my second layer. I now use Classens oil primed canvas - straight from the roll and love it. It has enough absorbency that my first layer sticks well, and I can wipe out a lot of the first layer and get a wonderful glow. And subsequent layers stick on top with a bit of sink-in, but not much, and easily corrected with oiling out and varnish at the end.

Also, your mediums will affect your absorbency. I used to use turp in all layers. I now use turp + linseed or walnut in my first layer. I then go to straight linseed or walnut in my next layers. I also use very little medium compared to paint.
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Old 08-25-2019, 05:04 AM
AllisonR AllisonR is offline
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Re: Oil ground...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WFMartin
Yeah, you're correct. Actually, some acrylic GESSOS are less absorbent than other acrylic Gessos.

For example, Grumbacher 525 Acrylic Gesso, and Liquitex Acrylic Gesso are both quite absorbent, and they have a tooth, while Golden Acrylic Gesso is not, and does not have a tooth. Also, the first two are very sandable, while the Golden is not as sandable.

Man, you must have a different Golden gesso than I do, because mine is crazy absorbent, way too much for me.
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Old 08-25-2019, 10:26 AM
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Re: Oil ground...

Thankyou everyone for your replies.
WFMartin- Thank your sir for such a detailed reply. You have always been a source of great help to me.
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Old 08-25-2019, 02:05 PM
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Re: Oil ground...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllisonR
Man, you must have a different Golden gesso than I do, because mine is crazy absorbent, way too much for me.

Interesting. I was given a sample of Golden Acrylic Gesso at some demo., once, and tried it. I found it to be very hard, shiny, slick, and plastic-y in its dried state on the canvas, and it resisted being sanded.

It behaved more like acrylic paint than like acrylic gesso, from my experience. I've never used any of that since.

Strange how different artists will form different opinions based upon the same material.
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Last edited by WFMartin : 08-25-2019 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 08-25-2019, 04:09 PM
Richard P Richard P is offline
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Re: Oil ground...

Unless they redid the formulation?

Golden do a few different gessos as well, maybe you are trying different ones?
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:30 AM
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AtelierArtisanal AtelierArtisanal is offline
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Re: Oil ground...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WFMartin
That is certainly true. The oil primed canvas offers a very nice surface upon which to apply oil paint.




I've asked that question quite often for the 30+ years I've been oil painting. It has always seemed to me that the requirements seem to change when one applies a layer of oil paint, calling it a "primer", compared to when one applies that same layer of oil paint, and calls it a "painting".

It seems that when one applies oil paint, and calls it a "primer", it is required to somehow endure an extraordinarily long "curing process" (such as 6 months to a year), before applying further paint to it. However, when one applies that same, identical paint in the form of an "image", one can apply further paint after a few days , when the paint is dry to the touch.

That never made much sense to me. I have been told that "primers" are generally applied in a thicker film, thus demanding a longer drying (curing) time. I suppose that makes some logical sense.



Yeah, actually there may be 3 types: Titanium, Lead, AND Zinc, used for priming. And, yes, I see no reason for sanding ANY of them. I sand the acrylic priming for the goal of making it smooth. I do no sanding once I begin to apply oil paint--even for the flat layers of primer.



Well, Lead dries a bit faster, but it creates an exceptionally strong paint film, which is quite advantageous for a base layer (primer).

When I purchase an acrylic-primed canvas, I sand it first, and then I apply several further coats of acrylic primer, applying it with a brush, and sanding it after every 3 coats of primer. Then, I coat the canvas with Titanium White (or Lead Carbonate White paint, when I can afford it), conditioning the paint with a medium composed of 1 portion Stand Oil to 5 portions Distilled Gum Spirits of Turpentine. I call this my "oil primer", and I generally tint the White with a bit of Burnt, or Raw Umber, to create a "taffy color" . I apply it with a brush.

I wait a week or two for it to dry, and then I begin painting (or drawing with charcoal) on top of it. It is every bit as good as an "oil primed canvas", and I have eliminated the effort, and agony that would be involved in applying a true, "oil primer".

The surface of my "pseudo-oil-primed canvas" does the job of preventing sink-in, or absorption of the image paint, because my one, or two coats of flat oil paint has taken the brunt of all the absorption that the acrylic-primed surface would otherwise inflict upon my image paint.

Just treat your acrylic primed canvas surface with a couple of coats of oil paint, thinned with a traditional (oil + solvent) medium, and you will have accomplished nearly the same goal as having created an "oil primed" canvas. It is a very friendly surface upon which to apply image oil paint.
WFMartin, Thanks very much for your informative responses to this question of priming with oil (for painting in oil). I especially appreciate the recipe you listed above for your "oil primer". It all makes sense to me.
I've got a small can of Old Holland brand "Cremser White" as well as a tube of Blocks Flake White. Besides both of them coming from two different European pigment producers they appear to be the same in terms of their lead content. I intend to use the Old Holland can diluted with your recipe for medium to coat some panels that I have already prepared with some good quality acrylic gesso ground (Golden).
I also intend to paint in acrylics on some panels prepared with acrylic grounds.
My interest is to see for myself the difference between the handling of paints and the grounds with which they have been prepared.
Thanks again for your tips.
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