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January 12, 2018 at 10:35 pm #449364
Hello Wetcanvas members!
I have a question about how an oil painter,I found online,mixes 3 ingredients as a medium based on a recipe from the old masters.She personally uses all Winsor & Newton products(that I presently do not have & would have to order due to my location).It’s a mixture of linseed stand oil,damar varnish & distilled turpentine.Based on the ‘fat over lean’ principle her ratios are as listed above,Underpainting ratio as;1-1-5 parts each.Middle layer as;1-1-4.And final top layer as;1-1-3.She premixes 3 individual mediums into small baby food jars,labeling each as above;1-1-5,1-1-4,& 1-1-3.Anyway,I’m interested in trying this method but my ingredients are as follows;Grumbacher Stand Oil,Grumbacher & Winsor Newton Damar Varnishes,but Weber Odorless Turpenoid(pure gum turpentine substitute).My concern is about whether Weber Odorless Turpenoid will be compatible with either of the Damar Varnishes.I’ve read somewhere that odorless turps.or OMS does not fully break down(mix)with the molecules or viscocity of damar varnish.Is this true?Furthermore,whether or not Odorless Turpenoid will mix properly with stand oil? Thankyou!January 12, 2018 at 11:01 pm #544085The original recipe you mention is a very standard recipe for a medium. It is solid, except I would standard linseed and not stand oil. You don’t need to buy from W&N, you just need to get some decent quality materials and since the three ingredients are quite common I am sure you’ll be able to get them without much problem.
On the other hand, your suggestion for a medium is bound to fail. Reason is that dammar only dissolves properly in turpentine. In general, odourless mineral spirits are rather “weak” solvents and won’t dissolve any resin. For artificial resins (I am thinking of alkyds, like Liquin) some version of white spirit should be used at least. There are a few alkyd resins which don’t require solvent. I’ll get back to them later. Natural resins like dammar or copal are harder and demand turpentine. In the case of amber it is even worse, as not even room temperature turpentine will dissolve it. Also take into account that stand oil is thicker than “standard” linseed oil.
Anyway. Why not trying a premixed medium first? Getting a well balanced medium for your needs is a bit of an art. I find myself using a lot of premixed medium despite knowing how to make it myself. It is cheap, convenient, and when properly balanced it is very easy to use (just add a little linseed oil for each glazing layer). There are several recipes around this forum which you can/should try but I believe that a standard commercial medium is a good start point to get you used to mediums after which you can go and choose your own according to what you have found.
Suggestions? Well, here are the mediums I use
– The very medium you were suggested of linseed/dammar/turps. I just buy it premade, it is quite cheap here, around 4 dollars for 240 ml: https://www.zonadelarte.com.mx/BARNICETA-TIPO-ALEMANA-PINTO-240-ML-,592_1468038630
– If in a rush I use Liquin, especially for glazing.
– When weather is cold and I can’t open windows and use an exhaust fan (I HATE the fumes from solvents) I use Gamblin’s solvent free. It comes in a consistence similar to that of oil paint (it is pretty much just oleogel plus resin) and also in a fluid version which is slightly runnier than linseed oil. Both use safflower oil, so yellowing should be minimal. You can dilute it with solvent for some uses but, of course, it denies the advantages of a solvent free medium.
– If I am doing what I call large area/thin layer painting like a background or a monochromatic layer in a single sitting and I don’t want to use any solvent I use Schmincke Medium W. It allows me to use my oil paints with water as solvent. It also dries fast but it is quite glossy (which is a moot point if Liquin is going to be used later).
Anyway. Go for it. Either home made or store bought, the standard dammar/turps/linseed is a solid medium if the smell is ok for you. Don’t attempt your “mod medium”, tho. It won’t yield good results.
January 12, 2018 at 11:30 pm #544079Ditch the stand oil, damar, all that stuff and try a simple medium of 1/2 odorless mineral spirits and 1/2 good linseed oil. I’ve used everything you’ve mentioned in your ingredient list and have very good reasons to -not- use them anymore.
Stand oil takes long to dry, dries to an excellent strong glossy paint film. Problem is when you want to paint over it the paint beads right off of it like water on a freshly waxed car. SO, you have to either A. put something else in your medium to make it stick to the dried stand oil, or B. make the dried surface more receptive to the new paint by dabbing or rubbing some solvent on it – which will most likely take up some of the dried paint.
Damar sucks. Period. Dries super glossy like stand oil, makes the paint take longer to dry, will get sticky during a painting session (oh how fun blending is when you have 2 hour old damar in your medium, like painting with maple syrup) and WILL COLLECT DUST LIKE CRAZY. A totally unnecessary addition to a medium.
Also, you mix up the medium I’ve suggested and you can use the same one in every layer of your painting – no different jars with different ratios. Nothing really wrong with that, but unnecessary busywork.
January 13, 2018 at 5:16 am #544082“Stand oil takes long to dry, dries to an excellent strong glossy paint film. Problem is when you want to paint over it the paint beads right off of it like water on a freshly waxed car. SO, you have to either A. put something else in your medium to make it stick to the dried stand oil, or B. make the dried surface more receptive to the new paint by dabbing or rubbing some solvent on it – which will most likely take up some of the dried paint.”
Of late I’ve been using stand oil based putty with marble dust and this doesn’t dry gloss for me. A little talc makes it even more matte in the early layers.
January 13, 2018 at 6:37 am #544089Just walnut oil as a medium works really well for me. I love the silky smooth feel when painting and blending
January 13, 2018 at 6:45 am #54408050% Linseed oil + 40% White Spirit +10% MSA (mineral spirit acrylic varnish)
my go to medium. I use alkyd, but add it directly into poor/slowly drying paint piles.January 13, 2018 at 6:46 am #544087Richard Schmid uses Damar and stand oil with solvent(1-1-5). The slower drying nature of this preparation suits Alla Prima painting. The gloss is a bonus.
January 13, 2018 at 9:13 am #544075Ditch the stand oil, damar, all that stuff and try a simple medium of 1/2 odorless mineral spirits and 1/2 good linseed oil. I’ve used everything you’ve mentioned in your ingredient list and have very good reasons to -not- use them anymore.
Stand oil takes long to dry, dries to an excellent strong glossy paint film. Problem is when you want to paint over it the paint beads right off of it like water on a freshly waxed car. SO, you have to either A. put something else in your medium to make it stick to the dried stand oil, or B. make the dried surface more receptive to the new paint by dabbing or rubbing some solvent on it – which will most likely take up some of the dried paint.
Damar sucks. Period. Dries super glossy like stand oil, makes the paint take longer to dry, will get sticky during a painting session (oh how fun blending is when you have 2 hour old damar in your medium, like painting with maple syrup) and WILL COLLECT DUST LIKE CRAZY. A totally unnecessary addition to a medium.
Also, you mix up the medium I’ve suggested and you can use the same one in every layer of your painting – no different jars with different ratios. Nothing really wrong with that, but unnecessary busywork.
Conservators – and many modern painters – would totally agree with the above. Various ingredients in mediums should only be used if you personally have a specific reason to use that ingredient. Damar is definitely in that category – unless you have a specific reason to use it, you can easily avoid it. More negative attributes than positive, and you would need turps, which should be avoided due to its toxicity.
Don
January 13, 2018 at 9:28 am #544077AnonymousOMS does not fully break down(mix)with the molecules or viscocity of damar varnish.Is this true?Furthermore,whether or not Odorless Turpenoid will mix properly with stand oil? Thankyou!
OMS (turpenoid) does indeed mix properly with stand oil.
OMS alone does not dissolve or mix with damar.
Despite the dire warnings I’ve read here:
I have made and used a number of mediums with stand or linseed oil, damar varnish, and OMS instead of turpentine. What happens is that the solution/suspension is cloudy instead of being perfectly dissolved and clear, but I don’t care. There is some turp in the varnish, but this medium smells so much better than using excessive turp or spike. I love using damar myself and it has performed nicely. I have a bottle I can take a photo of if you want. It looks the same as when I made it maybe a couple of years ago, it is just cloudy, no big whoop.January 13, 2018 at 1:24 pm #544083I say avoid damar. I believe that it darkens with age a lot worse than oil and is mostly responsible for why old oil paintings in museums look so dark and dim. And I also suspect that it leads to cracking more than just using oil.
I would just use a low viscosity oil like safflower or walnut if the paint out of the tube are too thick. It works fine.
But if you intend to paint thick impasto, then use an alkyd medium specifically advertised as an impasto medium.
January 13, 2018 at 3:39 pm #544086One thing we haven’t really asked the OP is what he wants his medium for. I mean, I assumed he asked about the dammar recipe because he was after that particular gloss that it produces but for most purposes one can survive with only linseed oil and oleogel (which is just “stiff” linseed oil) maybe with some solvent thrown in for detail work. Exception could be a toned ground, which could be achieved either by just toning acrylic gesso or turps+little oil. Nowadays I find most of my paintings only use medium when I need to trace lines or something similarly requiring “thin” paint. That is mostly because I have been mostly working alla prima, or maybe not even alla prima but certainly not requiring any transparent glaze.
50% Linseed oil + 40% White Spirit +10% MSA (mineral spirit acrylic varnish)
my go to medium. I use alkyd, but add it directly into poor/slowly drying paint piles.Interesting. Any varnish you recommend in particular? Doesn’t acrylic varnish retain a certain level of susceptibility to solvents even after dried? I mean, I know that dried alkyd resin can survive any cleaning with reasonable solvents but I expect acrylic to be somehow susceptible to them. That comes mostly from working with hardware store stuff, so I might be completely of the hook here. At any rate, I like the idea as it won’t yellow but I wonder if it is stable to solvents. Also, isn’t “final” acrylic varnish supposed to dry to a very closed surface? If so, wouldn’t beading occur for successive layers?
January 14, 2018 at 1:44 am #544090I would like to thank ALL of you for taking the time to make 1 or more posts about this subject,oil paint mediums.It has been a tremendous help in finding the simpliest,most convenient method that is within my immediate reach.I hope it may have helped another who may be at this level and pose questions about oil paint mediums,which one to use,since there are so many different preferences out there.I have choosen simply what is already part of my arsenal,so to speak.For the time being will consist of Gamblin Refined Linseed & odorless Turpenoid 50-50 ratio.I would go with OMS(whether or not they are the same,not sure) but OMS not at my aid presently.Thankyou.
January 14, 2018 at 2:41 am #544081Doesn’t acrylic varnish retain a certain level of susceptibility to solvents even after dried? I mean, I know that dried alkyd resin can survive any cleaning with reasonable solvents but I expect acrylic to be somehow susceptible to them.
Certain level of oil medium soluble acrylic resin is necessary for best adhesive result to keep dried oil paint layers to be “opened” for multilayer technique purpose. 1-3% of poly-buthylacrylate content into paint layers is enough for me to prevent beading and boost adhesive of any kind of oil paint. Solvent solubility of resins keeps oil paint “opened”. (The reason, why artists add a lot of Dammar or Canadian balsam into their painting mediums, in general, 30% of soluble resin is their “go to” working concentration.) J. Reynolds used even more resin, but with disastrous results.
After about 18 years of drying time, acrylic resin will eventually cross-link with oil paint molecular content. (acrylic resin is always prone to cross-link over time, as scientific articles said) That greatly reduce solvent solubility and gives cleaning solvent resistance to my old paintings. Hope, nobody will need to “clean” my paintings before 20 years passed away! :confused:
Weber’s “Synvar” is one of MSA acrylic varnish.
January 14, 2018 at 4:55 am #544088Here is a very close resemblance to the medium Richard Schmid uses who seems to be hugely popular in this forum. Its ‘Dammar Glaze Medium’ manufactured by Michael Harding. And boy what a wonderful container!No safety lid here.
http://www.michaelharding.co.uk/product/dammar-glaze-medium/
January 14, 2018 at 5:40 am #544078Anonymous.I would go with OMS(whether or not they are the same,not sure) but OMS not at my aid presently.Thank you.
Yes, Turpenoid is an OMS solvent. Winsor Newton calls their OMS Sansador, and Daler Rowney’s OMS is named Low Odor Thinners, Gamblin’s OMS is named Gamsol. They may have slightly different precise formulations, but they are all chemically and functionally OMS solvents.
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