Home Forums Explore Media Oil Painting The Technical Forum Oils on Masonite in Humid Climates

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  • #463513
    Pthalo White
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        If you live close to the equator, never paint with oils on Masonite, despite how many times you’ve primed it.

        I made one of the best pieces ever in class studio. It was still wet when I put it in my car to drive home. Did this a kazillion times with canvases.

        By the time I took it out of my car, the colors had changed. By the time I road the elevator to my condo, the colors changed again.

        The next day? Changed again! Since it was still wet, I just painted over it to the original color. No dice. The color kept changing. For a second, I thought I was psychotic.

        After much research over weeks, including contacting artists who authored books on painting on board, the culprit eventually surfaced its ugly head. It was the formaldehyde in the masonite.

        Yes, I admit I cried. And then chalked up to experience.

        In the US, masonite i purchased extremely cheaply from various countries because it’s low quality, and full of chemicals, in 2018. You can prime, sand it, make love to it, the color will still change. A year later, maybe it will be dry, and will be flat and dull.

        So, don’t use masonite in a humid climate! Heed my warning.:grouphug:

        #713364
        Ryan Demaree
        Default

            I dont really like panels in general, despite their conservatory prowess.

            I like seeing the back of a well-stretched linen canvas, big or small.

            Also a warped panel is hard to deal with…a canvas can be dealt with fairly easily..or simply re-stretch.

            It is mostly an aesthetic thing for me tho

            My Website - www.rdemaree.com

            #713363
            budigart
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                I have used Masonite/hardboard for years and never had that problem. Hmmm.

                #713368
                JCannon
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                    Ryan, I admire your work but have very different ideas regarding choice of supports. Canvas paintings develop “dimples,” especially when you move. Also, I never cared for the texture.

                    The original poster did not specify what he meant by “prime.” Did he use a sealer like Kilz? Baltimore is pretty darned humid, but I have not had a problem like that.

                    #713370
                    contumacious
                    Default

                        If you are concerned about formaldehyde, buy the US made tempered hardboard from Lowe’s. It is certified as formaldehyde free. I have never had any problems with it, plus it is stored flat at the store and is a stronger, better made product than the warped stuff they sell at Home Depot.

                        That being said, my guess is your problem is not formaldehyde, but rather the materials you are using as a ground and possibly to seal the hardboard as well.

                        Neither Acrylic Gesso nor PVA will adequately seal hardboard. They are both hygroscopic and can allow SID (Substrate Induced Discoloration) – use something like Bulls Eye, Wax Free Shellac, matte acrylic medium or my favorite XIM UMA.

                        As for your ground, if it is an absorbent ground such as Acrylic Gesso, your colors will change as it dries, going darker and more flat – it is called Sinking In. Try an alkyd or oil ground, or seal your acrylic gesso with some clear acrylic medium before you paint on it so your paints don’t sink it.

                        #713360
                        WFMartin
                        Default

                            I am a definite advocate of using panels for oil paintings, rather than using stretched fabric. The advantages of a hard, stable, non-flexible surface for an oil painting are too numerous to list.

                            However (and I state this as a true enthusiast of using panels) , if there is anything that can go “wrong” with the drying of oil paint, it will be on a panel!

                            Don’t ask me why, …..That’s just been my experience. I’ve had paints that refused to dry quickly on panels. I’ve have had paintings that were totally dried, and varnished (and dried), that months later became sticky, and tacky for no apparent reason.

                            Oh…….But, I’ve NEVER had the color change on me! Not with oil paint! That’s the crowning glory of ACRYLICS!

                            Most of these drying nightmares, and aberrations have been with hardboard panels that I prepared myself, and I have had no problems with the RayMar Canvas, and Linen Panels that I use for most of my work.

                            Self-made panels just seem to have a mind of their own, and they tend to be very unpredictable in their behavior once oil paint has been applied to them. I’m not at all surprised that high humidity would contribute to weird aberrations with oil paint on panels. I live in Arizona, where the humidity is next to NONE, and I still experience drying abnormalities with oil paint on panels.

                            This is just my opinion, based upon what I’ve noticed with the few hardboard panels that I’ve used . :)

                            wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
                            https://williamfmartin.blogspot.com

                            #713376
                            Pthalo White
                            Default

                                I dont really like panels in general, despite their conservatory prowess.

                                I like seeing the back of a well-stretched linen canvas, big or small.

                                Also a warped panel is hard to deal with…a canvas can be dealt with fairly easily..or simply re-stretch.

                                It is mostly an aesthetic thing for me tho

                                I changed from board to canvas for a while because the colors will be “brighter” because they don’t sink into the canvas. Also, I can get pretty rough while painting…. palette knives, scraping; abstracts. (Linen is wonderful; I see why you like it)

                                #713377
                                Pthalo White
                                Default

                                    I have used Masonite/hardboard for years and never had that problem. Hmmm.

                                    Weird, hunh? When it was happening, I contacted Lois Griffel (“Painting the impressionist landscape”), who paints on hardboard. She couldn’t believe it. I sent her photos, and showed her by starting a painting, and five minutes later showing her how color changed, and again. She was as confused as I was. She was the one that believed it had to do with the formaldehyde and, THE HUMIDITY of where I live. High humidity. Like in a jungle. She had never heard of anything like that happening, and masonite is all she and her students paint on.

                                    I’m going to try one last place… Lowe’s…. and that’s the last time forever. Another artist said they use formaldehyde-free masonite, so we’ll see. I’ll keep you guys informed.:thumbsup:

                                    #713378
                                    Pthalo White
                                    Default

                                        Ryan, I admire your work but have very different ideas regarding choice of supports. Canvas paintings develop “dimples,” especially when you move. Also, I never cared for the texture.

                                        The original poster did not specify what he meant by “prime.” Did he use a sealer like Kilz? Baltimore is pretty darned humid, but I have not had a problem like that.

                                        The original poster, SHE, used every kind of primer from here to Timbuktu. Baltimore, humid? bwahahahahahha! we’re talking jungle-humid. I also used sealers, varnishes, and everything. This went on for a good or so.

                                        #713379
                                        Pthalo White
                                        Default

                                            thank you for your input. I can’t paint with acrylics, because that’s the weapon of Satan. (giggle) I’m joking. I paint wet on wet, and mix paint a lot, so oils work best for me. I’m an Oil Loyalist, politically. (giggle)

                                            #713361
                                            Anonymous

                                                . Baltimore, humid? bwahahahahahha! we’re talking jungle-humid. .

                                                Balt is roughly 60% Quito is roughly 80% Arizona less than 40% average yearly humidity.

                                                It was the formaldehyde in the masonite.

                                                I just bought a sheet of it from Home Depot (for another purpose) and brought it in the house. The odor was sickening and so repulsive that I had to set it outside and it has been there for a month now, airing out the stench.

                                                #713375
                                                Raffless
                                                Default

                                                    If you live close to the equator, never paint with oils on Masonite, despite how many times you’ve primed it.

                                                    I made one of the best pieces ever in class studio. It was still wet when I put it in my car to drive home. Did this a kazillion times with canvases.

                                                    By the time I took it out of my car, the colors had changed. By the time I road the elevator to my condo, the colors changed again.

                                                    The next day? Changed again! Since it was still wet, I just painted over it to the original color. No dice. The color kept changing. For a second, I thought I was psychotic.

                                                    After much research over weeks, including contacting artists who authored books on painting on board, the culprit eventually surfaced its ugly head. It was the formaldehyde in the masonite.

                                                    Yes, I admit I cried. And then chalked up to experience.

                                                    In the US, masonite i purchased extremely cheaply from various countries because it’s low quality, and full of chemicals, in 2018. You can prime, sand it, make love to it, the color will still change. A year later, maybe it will be dry, and will be flat and dull.

                                                    So, don’t use masonite in a humid climate! Heed my warning.:grouphug:

                                                    This shifting of colours you talk about. Is it the actual chroma colour that is changing or just the saturation? Im guessing the latter. But if its the former you may have seen many years ago barometers that had a circular piece of cloth cut out on them(1970’s). The cloth used to change colour depending on the climate. When it was rainy they used to turn blue. When it was warm and dry they used to be pink. The humidity may well be working its effect:cool:

                                                    #713369
                                                    JCannon
                                                    Default

                                                        Pthalo, I do apologize for the use of the wrong pronoun. In my defense, there were no pronoun-markers in your post.

                                                        Do not underestimate the humidity here in Maryland! I have never before lived in a state where almost no-one owns a garden hose. No need for one. Plants constantly threaten to take over the entire state, and civilization requires constant struggle. In fact, my attempts to talk to some of the people here in Baltimore has convinced me that the vegetable kingdom is nearing the day of total victory.

                                                        Airbrushing in the basement was out of the question, even with TWO moisture traps attached to the air hose.

                                                        And then we got a dehumidifier.

                                                        That would be my final recommendation. Use a dehumidifier plus a sealer specifically designed for formaldehyde-laced woods. Then keep the painting in a semi-controlled environment.

                                                        That’s probably not always possible. I think that heat is probably the main factor in outgassing, so keeping the work out of sunlight may help.

                                                        At any rate, it’s often pretty easy to find plywood and other surfaces. Lately, I’ve taken to working on illustration board and thick paper (both acid free and high-quality) mounted to board with gesso. Hope it lasts.

                                                        Beyong that

                                                        #713380
                                                        Pthalo White
                                                        Default

                                                            Pthalo, I do apologize for the use of the wrong pronoun. In my defense, there were no pronoun-markers in your post.

                                                            Do not underestimate the humidity here in Maryland! I have never before lived in a state where almost no-one owns a garden hose. No need for one. Plants constantly threaten to take over the entire state, and civilization requires constant struggle. In fact, my attempts to talk to some of the people here in Baltimore has convinced me that the vegetable kingdom is nearing the day of total victory.

                                                            Airbrushing in the basement was out of the question, even with TWO moisture traps attached to the air hose.

                                                            And then we got a dehumidifier.

                                                            That would be my final recommendation. Use a dehumidifier plus a sealer specifically designed for formaldehyde-laced woods. Then keep the painting in a semi-controlled environment.

                                                            That’s probably not always possible. I think that heat is probably the main factor in outgassing, so keeping the work out of sunlight may help.

                                                            At any rate, it’s often pretty easy to find plywood and other surfaces. Lately, I’ve taken to working on illustration board and thick paper (both acid free and high-quality) mounted to board with gesso. Hope it lasts.

                                                            Beyong that

                                                            Hi, JC. thanks so much for your advice. :wave:

                                                            #713381
                                                            Pthalo White
                                                            Default

                                                                This shifting of colours you talk about. Is it the actual chroma colour that is changing or just the saturation? Im guessing the latter. But if its the former you may have seen many years ago barometers that had a circular piece of cloth cut out on them(1970’s). The cloth used to change colour depending on the climate. When it was rainy they used to turn blue. When it was warm and dry they used to be pink. The humidity may well be working its effect:cool:

                                                                The chroma. I’ll show you. If go to my website, amyhallpaints.com … there’s a link by my signature.

                                                                Go to “tempered climates”, and then click on “She’s so Moody”. that’s the painting. The upper left corner was white. there was an eensy teensy dot of magenta below it which was painted over with white. Heavy white, like icing on a cake.

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