Home Forums Explore Media Oil Painting White paint kills my paintings

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  • #994709
    janlapp
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        Hello all, it’s been here at the oil painting forum so apologies if I’m posting in the wrong section – didn’t see a “learning” section.

        My problem is white paint. I’ve been painting pretty much exclusively with watercolours the past year and as I’ve now started painting with oils again I have run into an old enemy: I don’t know how to use white paint.

        When I block in shadows and the rich darks everything looks good, I have a nice rich gradient of darker values and I’m now going to transition into the lighter darks and dark lights (sorry don’t know how to say this better.) As soon as I mix in even a little bit of white paint the whole thing goes amiss – there is no cohesion or flow between my rich darker values and the midtones that have white in them – even if they are close in value. I’ve tried mixing haltones without white but I can’t get the values light enough.

        Sound like a familliar problem? Any tips on how to resolve this? Any advice appreciated.

        #1263050
        MarkMark
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            What type of white are you using?

            #1263066
            janlapp
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                I’m using artist quality rembrandt titanium white.

                #1263049
                Delofasht
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                    Try to glaze your midtones with a transparent dark mixture to assist the gradient from midtone to shadows as needed, you don’t have to nail the transition in an opaque fashion.

                    Edit: Or you could make a value scale to the side and compare your mixture to your scale as needed to ensure you have it close when painting opaquely.

                    - Delo Delofasht
                    #1263054
                    Don Ketchek
                    Default

                        Many artists add a touch of yellow or ochre to their white. Titanium buff is another alternative.

                        Don

                        #1263063
                        Gigalot
                        Default

                            My problem is white paint.
                            When I block in shadows and the rich darks everything looks good, I have a nice rich gradient of darker values and I’m now going to transition into the lighter darks and dark lights (sorry don’t know how to say this better.) As soon as I mix in even a little bit of white paint the whole thing goes amiss – there is no cohesion or flow between my rich darker values and the midtones that have white in them – even if they are close in value. I’ve tried mixing haltones without white but I can’t get the values light enough.

                            Zinc White can work fine for color gradient mixing. Titanium can cause “chalkiness” problem for many artists. Art creation is a combat with painting materials! :lol: But some specific pigments are effective to mix with Titanium White “chalk bomb”. For example, Phthalo blue; Phthalo green; Opaque red oxide PR101; Violet oxide PR101; Chromium Oxide green PG17; Diarylide Yellow PY83 have perfect mixing properties for gradients with Titanium White.

                            #1263077

                            Many artists add a touch of yellow or ochre to their white. Titanium buff is another alternative.

                            Don

                            Titanium Buff has a high tinting strength also?

                            I saw this in my local art store yesterday, but haven’t found good info about this pigment…

                            Is the same that “Unbleached Titanium” from Williamsburg?

                            #1263064
                            Gigalot
                            Default

                                Titanium Buff has a high tinting strength also?

                                I saw this in my local art store yesterday, but haven’t found good info about this pigment…

                                Is the same that “Unbleached Titanium” from Williamsburg?

                                Titanium Buff can make mud with blue, violet, green or rose color. I found it completely not useful for me. I like superior White like Original Permalba White! I can add dirt into Titanium White by hand! I like chromatic white, but I prefer to use many different earth colors for that purpose.
                                In the other hand, some of low tinting and highly filled “mixing whites” can be nice to mix, but this mixing white can darken and became more transparent when dries. The real, good Titanium White is superior color. Also, those “mixing whites” have not documented paint formulation. Zinc White is better for mixing and sometimes irreplaceable for me, but people worrying about cracks in this paint. Finally, a little more experience in paint mixing will help to work with high quality artistic Titanium White! :)

                                #1263067
                                janlapp
                                Default

                                    Thanks for the advice everyone – I think I just need to practice a lot more in mixing white paint into colours in order to get the hues and values that I want. I am so used to using transparent paint to get light values that I feel out of my element completely. I think what I wanted to know was whether I was adding white in too early, and if oil painters mix midtones without using white paint at all but that just doesnt seem to be the case.

                                    #1263059
                                    Ron Francis
                                    Default

                                        When I block in shadows and the rich darks everything looks good, I have a nice rich gradient of darker values and I’m now going to transition into the lighter darks and dark lights (sorry don’t know how to say this better.) As soon as I mix in even a little bit of white paint the whole thing goes amiss – there is no cohesion or flow between my rich darker values and the midtones that have white in them – even if they are close in value. I’ve tried mixing haltones without white but I can’t get the values light enough.

                                        Are you mixing white into your dark colours to make them lighter?

                                        Ron
                                        www.RonaldFrancis.com

                                        #1263078

                                        Titanium Buff can make mud with blue, violet, green or rose color. I found it completely not useful for me. I like superior White like Original Permalba White!

                                        Do you know some online art shop where I could order a tube of Permalba Original White, and accept PayPal?;

                                        Very few online art shops does shipping to Chile. DickBick does, but don’t share the cost of the shipping before you buy it.

                                        In eBay the tubes of Permalba Original White are extremely overpriced ($30 for a 150 ml tube vs $10 for the same in DickBlick).

                                        Jerry’s Artarama, BarnaArt, and CheapJoe’s also does shipping, but only by FedEx (not USPS). :crying:

                                        Thanks!!

                                        #1263068
                                        janlapp
                                        Default

                                            Are you mixing white into your dark colours to make them lighter?

                                            I keep white paint away from all the dark areas, if thats what you mean – I just start adding white into the midtones.

                                            #1263055
                                            Don Ketchek
                                            Default

                                                I keep white paint away from all the dark areas, if thats what you mean – I just start adding white into the midtones.

                                                In direct painting, you mix the color as close as you can to the “target” color. So, it shouldn’t really be apparent whether there is white or not in the mix. It is all about the final color mix. If it looks wrong in your painting, then the problem often is that the midtone color you are getting is either the wrong value, the wrong hue or the wrong intensity. The wrong hue often comes down to the wrong temperature – which is just a shorthand way of saying that the hue is not exactly correct by being either to warm (leaning towards orange) or too cool (leaning towards blue). Since white often cools the color, that is why I mentioned adding yellows to your white. If the white paint is reducing the color intensity, then you need to start with more intense color, use less white, or find a more intense light color to put into the mix.

                                                Since it is not always possible to solve the above issues, then sometimes you need to accept altering the value. if your midtones are somewhat darker than you want, but are the correct hue and intensity by using less or no white, then that may be the best solution!

                                                That’s my take – feel free to ignore these comments!

                                                Don

                                                #1263060
                                                Ron Francis
                                                Default

                                                    I keep white paint away from all the dark areas, if thats what you mean – I just start adding white into the midtones.

                                                    A common mistake is to add white to a colour to try to make a lighter version, but white, any white, will generally lower chroma.
                                                    (The exception is when white is added to very dark, very chromatic transparent colours like the phthalos, which will increase in chroma to a point before becoming less chromatic again.)
                                                    So I was wondering if this is what was happening to you.
                                                    As Don suggested, it may be that you’re just not mixing the right colour rather than white being the culprit.
                                                    This seems like good advice to me.

                                                    If the white paint is reducing the color intensity, then you need to start with more intense color, use less white, or find a more intense light color to put into the mix.

                                                    As you come from watercolour, it may be that you just don’t like the opaqueness you’re getting.
                                                    If that’s the case, you could use transparent oils in a similar way to watercolour and not use white at all.
                                                    You can’t do washes in the same way because too much solvent destroys the paint film, but you can still paint very thin transparent films with good technique.
                                                    I’m not sure, but I don’t think that Maxfield Parrish used white unless blocking in an area if repainting something.
                                                    Anyway, it’s certainly possible not to use white.

                                                    Maybe if you posted a photo we could get a better idea of your problem.

                                                    Ron
                                                    www.RonaldFrancis.com

                                                    #1263058
                                                    Anonymous

                                                        Hello all, it’s been here at the oil painting forum so apologies if I’m posting in the wrong section – didn’t see a “learning” section.

                                                        My problem is white paint. I’ve been painting pretty much exclusively with watercolours the past year and as I’ve now started painting with oils again I have run into an old enemy: I don’t know how to use white paint.

                                                        When I block in shadows and the rich darks everything looks good, I have a nice rich gradient of darker values and I’m now going to transition into the lighter darks and dark lights (sorry don’t know how to say this better.) As soon as I mix in even a little bit of white paint the whole thing goes amiss – there is no cohesion or flow between my rich darker values and the midtones that have white in them – even if they are close in value. I’ve tried mixing haltones without white but I can’t get the values light enough.

                                                        Sound like a familliar problem? Any tips on how to resolve this? Any advice appreciated.

                                                        If they are close in value, then you may be sensing a temperature difference thing, that just doesn’t feel right, IDK.
                                                        If you feel white paint is the thing, try using an unbleached Titanium white. I use it a lot when painting acrylics, and have found it to be indispensable, but I haven’t gotten any unbleached white oil paint yet. If that doesn’t work, then it is probably not the white paint itself. If you don’t want to buy some paint, you can make it yourself by pre adding a little bit of yellow ochre, an earth red, and some black, to make a warm beige colored “white”.
                                                        But you are right, white paint can kill paintings! if you are like me, red can kill too. Sometimes yellow, blue, brown, or black are lethal too! :lol:

                                                        edit: after responding without looking at previous responses, I looked at other’s comments, and I see Don also already mentioned the temperature factor and possibly using buff white too :thumbsup: .

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