making walnut "stand" oil - WetCanvas: Online Living for Artists

This topic has 34 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 8 months ago by KaySilver.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 35 total)

1 2 3 →

Author

Posts
July 27, 2017 at 2:05 pm #995229
p_nathan
Default
I’m curious about what it would take to make high-viscosity walnut oil. I’m rather fond of my Linseed Stand Oil from Gamblin due to the viscosity, but I’d like to experiment (at home) with making highly viscous oils from other plants(walnut, safflower, poppyseed, etc).

Stand oil also seems to be a somewhat ambiguous term for production: one place I read it as “letting oil stand for a very long time”, one place I read it as “bodied oil produced by heat”, e.g., kettle oil.

Thoughts would be appreciated.

hobbyist in oil.
July 27, 2017 at 2:18 pm #1271621
Gigalot
Default
I did sunflower high viscous oil. Do not use light to “bleach” it. This oil is water clear, but on direct sunlight it begins to yellowing quite quickly. This yellowing is permanent. Keep sunflower oil away from light and it oxidize to pure water-clean substance. Even high viscous sunflower stand oil is highly soluble in White Spirit and it forms very clean and very low viscosity solution even if you add 50-60% honey syrupy sunflower stand oil into 40% White spirit

Do not heat sunflower stand oil because it will lost drying properties forever. Avoid heat when treat sunflower oil.
July 27, 2017 at 2:23 pm #1271625
Humbaba
Default
Stand oil is made from well-bleached Linseed oil in specially made kettles, using super-heated steam, or by heating the oil in the absence of oxygen for several days.

I guess that you could try to do the same with very clear cold pressed Walnut oil. Keep in mind that this is time consuming, dangerous, you need a lot of energy (cooking gas, electricity), the oil will probably turn dark.

My method of creating a thick, viscous Walnut oil is by long cooking with Amber, crushed in tiny particles, operation that must be done outside and away from the neighbors. A sand bath, and continuous stirring is necessary, using disposable clothing :rolleyes:
July 27, 2017 at 2:28 pm #1271635
p_nathan
Default
Stand oil is made from well-bleached Linseed oil in specially made kettles, using super-heated steam, or by heating the oil in the absence of oxygen for several days.

I guess that you could try to do the same with very clear cold pressed Walnut oil. Keep in mind that this is time consuming, dangerous, you need a lot of energy (cooking gas, electricity), the oil will probably turn dark.

My method of creating a thick, viscous Walnut oil is by long cooking with Amber, crushed in tiny particles, operation that must be done outside and away from the neighbors. A sand bath, and continuous stirring is necessary, using disposable clothing :rolleyes:

this sounds like something my wife would disapprove of doing in the kitchen.

hobbyist in oil.
July 27, 2017 at 3:27 pm #1271626
Humbaba
Default
this sounds like something my wife would disapprove of doing in the kitchen.

I’m sorry, it is not my intention to scare you, but I must be honest.

Another method to thicken oils is by blowing air through it, the oil is heated by a fire under the kettle or by steam, or else the air is heated by passing it through a super-heater. An experimental home made heater would be a modified Pressure Cooker, you basically attach a copper flexible tube to the steam exit, and its end is introduced to the bottom of the oil.
(Don’t try this at home, there is always the risk of an explosion).
July 27, 2017 at 3:48 pm #1271622
Gigalot
Default
That sounds like you want to build 19-th century designed, industrial plat to manufacture black walnut oil!
July 27, 2017 at 7:58 pm #1271636
p_nathan
Default
I’m sorry, it is not my intention to scare you, but I must be honest.

Another method to thicken oils is by blowing air through it, the oil is heated by a fire under the kettle or by steam, or else the air is heated by passing it through a super-heater. An experimental home made heater would be a modified Pressure Cooker, you basically attach a copper flexible tube to the steam exit, and its end is introduced to the bottom of the oil.
(Don’t try this at home, there is always the risk of an explosion).

Well, I have to be realistic about the risks. Not everything can be done at home.

So if I understand right, thickening is achieved by heating and/or rapidly oxygenating the oil (causing, iirc, partial polymerization)?

hobbyist in oil.
July 27, 2017 at 8:34 pm #1271627
Humbaba
Default
So if I understand right, thickening is achieved by heating and/or rapidly oxygenating the oil (causing, iirc, partial polymerization)?

Based on the knowledge I have found in old books, the answer to this could be Yes. Of course, I am opened to be corrected or showed the light if this is wrong.

Thickening can also be achieved by Photopolymerization (absorption of visible or ultraviolet light).

Sun-Thickened Oil is of course, inferior to Stand Oil, the process also require that the oil have access to oxygen.
July 28, 2017 at 12:44 am #1271613
AnnieA
Default
I’ve been studying Spurgeon’s info on oils and his putty medium. He has a lot of info on a variety of oil refining/treating methods here.

[FONT=Arial]C&C always welcome ©[/I] [/font]
[FONT=Palatino]
“Life is a pure flame and we live by an invisible sun within us.” ― Sir Thomas Browne [/size][/font]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/29-Jul-2007/85002-sig-thumbnail_composite_2.jpg]/img]
July 28, 2017 at 7:57 am #1271628
Humbaba
Default
I’ve been studying Spurgeon’s info on oils and his putty medium. [URL=https://www.tadspurgeon.com/content.php?page=just+oil]He has a lot of info on a variety of oil refining/treating methods here.[/URL]

Thanks,

I noticed something interesting in his PDF, his Prior Oxygenation method contains a flaw, the Oil is not being heated in any way.
July 28, 2017 at 8:30 am #1271615
Anonymous
Thoughts would be appreciated.

Here are my thoughts:
When I look at many centuries of this kind of experimentation with binding oils, yet the historical record shows that it is normally made with linseed oil,
it makes me think, yeah, linseed is the real stuff, and it makes me suspect that there could well be “negative” types of issues with making a stand oil with other binding oils like walnut, safflower, poppy, etc. It could be a too slow drying problem, or the resulting paint film is softer, or reduced durability , or something less desirable, but I am just guessing.
The process may also be very dependent upon the concentration of linolenic acid and those oils don’t have the content that linseed has, but walnut would be the closest. It is a polymerization process that takes place, and that particular fatty acid is a major player in the formation of the polymerized matrix, which is what produces the thickened consistency/viscosity.
But if you want to try out some of those alternative oils, I see nothing wrong with experimenting all you want.
July 28, 2017 at 9:37 am #1271629
Humbaba
Default
Here are my thoughts:
When I look at many centuries of this kind of experimentation with binding oils, yet the historical record shows that it is normally made with linseed oil,
it makes me think, yeah, linseed is the real stuff, and it makes me suspect that there could well be “negative” types of issues with making a stand oil with other binding oils like walnut, safflower, poppy, etc. It could be a too slow drying problem, or the resulting paint film is softer, or reduced durability , or something less desirable, but I am just guessing

I found these statements regarding Walnut oil by consulting scattered texts:

“Due to its very light color Walnut oil is preferred for the fabrication of very fine varnish and also for thinning colors used in oil-painting.”

“Walnut Cold pressed oil bleaches in sunlight quickly and completely;
because of its color it is used in fine varnishes.”

“It is interesting to see how oil was prepared in the laboratory of Leonardo da Vinci, the greatest painter of his time, in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. The recipe was found in his own handwriting and describes the process of making oil of walnuts, which, on account of its pale color, has always been a favorite with artists.”
July 28, 2017 at 10:04 am #1271642
Raffless
Default
Walnut oil has a low smoke point. That alone should put you off! Unless you have a well ventilated property i wouldnt try it.
July 28, 2017 at 12:21 pm #1271614
AnnieA
Default
Walnut oil has a low smoke point. That alone should put you off! Unless you have a well ventilated property i wouldnt try it.

Since I haven’t tried it yet, I can’t weigh in on the plusses and minusses of heat-treated walnut oil. But I did heat some in a small crockpot (the kind used for dips, as Spurgeon recommends), and can report that although there was a slight odor, there was no smoking involved. The crockpot was heating at least to 240 degrees, which is just slightly higher than the 230 that Spurgeon recommends.

Today, after reading more, I intend to put the oil outside for sun bleaching. I’ll report back when it’s done.

[FONT=Arial]C&C always welcome ©[/I] [/font]
[FONT=Palatino]
“Life is a pure flame and we live by an invisible sun within us.” ― Sir Thomas Browne [/size][/font]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/29-Jul-2007/85002-sig-thumbnail_composite_2.jpg]/img]
July 28, 2017 at 3:47 pm #1271616
Anonymous
*
Author

Posts