Home Forums Explore Media Oil Painting Glazing over Impasto

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  • #995226
    cfalewitch
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        Hello! This is my first post on here so excuse me if I’m missing anything.

        I’ve been trying to study the technique of Rembrandt, and how he would put glazes over his thick impastos. I have found some other videos and posts that touch on this topic but I can’t quite get the answer I’m looking for.

        Mainly, what I should use in the underpainting in building the impasto up? My plan is to use something to build up the initial layer of impasto, glaze over that with oils, and maybe continue to build some impasto up in the thicker areas (with oils) after that. I’ve read some things about tempera, but I’ve also seen many people who suggest not to use tempera for impasto. My issue with oils is the drying time when built up thickly. I do not want to build it up and then have to wait months for it to dry fully before i can glaze over that. (I know it would be dry to the touch before that, but if i glazed over paint that was not fully cured, wouldn’t that make it vulnerable to cracking?)

        Could I use acrylic as the underpainting, build that up and then go over that with oils?

        I’m open to any and all suggestions.

        Thank you!

        #1271590
        Humbaba
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            Hi,

            There are several approaches you could use to do this, and you have already suggested one:

            1. Built your underpainting using oils. To do this, you would need to remove any excess oil from the paint by placing your batches of paint on newspaper sheets, or on absorbent paper towels.

            2. Use the least harmful siccative such as Cobalt Drier, adding tiny drops to your batches of paint.

            3. Paint using acrylics, and over this paint using your glazings of oil

            4. Create your underpainting using quick drying pigments such as Prussian Blue, Burnt Umber mixed with some white.

            5. Dry your underpainting under the sun (this is tricky), you would need Amber Varnish to actually have some effect.

            6. Tempera is fast drying, used with success in the past, an example of impasto is given by famous art forger Tom Keating, who painted first using Tempera, and over it oils.

            #1271597
            cfalewitch
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                Thank you so much!

                I have seen some of the Tom Keating videos where he builds his underpainting in tempera. I would really like to try that, but I’m not sure what he’s using when he says “tempera”. Would i be able to get strong build up with the traditional yolk+pigment?

                #1271591
                Pinguino
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                    I don’t use impasto, so what I write here is “what I’ve heard” rather than “what I know”:

                    If you use a siccative, get one that has multiple agents, not just cobalt. Perhaps CoZiCa or one like it would work best. The additional agents are supposed to help oxygen migrate past the surface, which would be important for impasto.

                    #1271589
                    Gigalot
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                        You can use PVA Tempera or Acrylic Tempera:
                        http://www.noteaccess.com/MATERIALS/PAEPProcedure.htm

                        Rag paper, untempered Masonite Presdwood, and wood panels are suitable as supports for PVA painting.

                        Supports primed with standard glue gesso can be used, as in egg tempera. Gesso grounds can also be prepared using the PVA emulsion instead of rabbitskin glue.

                        1. Sand the Masonite in the usual way.
                        2. To size the panel, dilute the PVA using

                        1 volume PVA
                        2 volumes water
                        Apply a thin coat and allow it to dry. Then apply another coat of the size. Allow this to dry thoroughly [about 30 minutes]

                        3. Prepare the gesso by combining

                        1 volume PVA
                        2 1/2 volumes water
                        3 volumes dry pigment filler [70% whiting, 30% titanium dioxide]
                        Add the water to the PVA emulsion. Combine them with the filler to make a smooth mixture, free of lumps. The proportion of titanium to whiting may be increased to make the gesso whiter. More water may be added if a thinner gesso is desired.

                        4. Apply several coats of gesso to the panel, brushing each coat at right angles to the preceding one. No heating is necessary to keep the gesso liquid. Gently stir the gesso from time to time to prevent the pigment filler from settling to the bottom of the mixture. The gessoed panel can be given a thin wash of the dilute PVA sizing solution as an imprimatura.

                        5. If a textile surface is desired, raw linen can be mounted on an ungessoed Masonite panel.

                        a. Size the Masonite with the PVA emulsion, diluted with two parts of water.
                        b. Stretch the fabric over the panel while the size is wet.
                        c. Brush the sizing solution over the fabric and allow it to dry.
                        d. Gesso the surface as in steps 3 and 4.

                        #1271598
                        cfalewitch
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                            If I use acrylic tempera on linen stretched on stretcher bars, as opposed to panel like you mentioned, do you think the flex of the surface would make it susceptible to cracking? Or would you recommend I stick with linen stretched over panel?

                            Thank you so much for the information.

                            #1271596
                            Fesechko
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                                I have this book
                                https://www.amazon.com/Art-Making-Rembrandt-National-Paperback/dp/1857093569

                                There you will find everything about his materials, techniques, X-rays of painitngs, cross-sections of his layers on macro photos and any more.

                                #1271593
                                Luis Sanchez
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                                    I am not sure what is exactly what you want/need. But if I understood correctly all you want is an appropriate method for an under-painting. A simple method would be to tone your canvas with gesso+acrylic raw umber (or whatever tone you want). Once it dries, a couple of days later (it is touch dry in minutes, but wait for full evaporation) then you can use oil thinned with turpentine (or better, 3 parts solvent, 1 linseed oil). Usually underpaintings are monochromatic with an earth colour (black or green are also common) toned down with white. If you have lead white at hand, perfect, but you don’t really need it since thin layers of paint will dry fast.

                                    Personally, I’d avoid driers if I am going to paint impasto on top of it, doubly so if the impasto is painted on stretched canvas. The reason is that driers are prone to cracking unless you really know what you are doing, besides, the earth colours are already fast drying (not to mention that most whites also come with driers). If you insist on driers then try quick drying white to tone down your under-painting since at least one expects the manufacturer to carefully concoct their drier mix for their product.

                                    As you can see, this is a very conservative approach but that’s what you need for impasto, a solid surface that can take the blobs of paint. For the impasto itself, try gamblin solvent free or liquin impasto. You don’t need them at all, but you can find the drying time of thick paint to be infuriating.

                                    #1271599
                                    cfalewitch
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                                        I have a lot of experience with underpainting in oils, I was just looking for a technique where I could build up a thick underpainting in a quick drying medium, probably in grisaille, and then glaze over the top of that in oils to pull color into it. Maybe i wasn’t clear enough in the grisaille part.

                                        Still, thank you for the response!

                                        #1271594
                                        Luis Sanchez
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                                            Oh, so you want the impasto itself to be the under-painting, right? Go for Liquin impasto or Neo-Megilp. At least that’s what I’do, the reason being that you won’t have the long waiting time for drying that impasto frequently requires. Besides, alkyds are way more elastic which will greatly reduce the risk of cracking. Absolutely avoid cobalt siccative for impasto as it is almost certain to develop cracks, a through drier like Courtrai siccative would be better although I’d still proceed with caution. I am sure Liquin already has cobalt siccative (that’s what gives its funny fleshy colour which is not the colour of most alkyds which are yellowish) but at least the proportion of siccative relative to the rest of ingredients seem to be very well calculated as I have never experienced cracking with it despite a little occasional negligence on my part :angel:

                                            For the glaze on top you can use Liquin original or the same Neo-Meglip slightly diluted with OMS. The tempera PVA method suggested before looks like an interesting mixed media but I can’t certainly comment on it as I have no experience with it.

                                            #1271600
                                            cfalewitch
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                                                This is extremely helpful. I have used Neo Megilp in the past for this glazes, I much prefer it to Liquin. Ive never used it for impasto though. I just started a painting using acrylic as the underpainting. Ill try it with Neo Megilp as well. Maybe ill post some progress shots when i get a good start.

                                                Thanks again!

                                                #1271592
                                                contumacious
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                                                    You might want to try something thicker than Neo Megilp if you want some fairly heavy, crisp impasto that will dry quickly, such as Gamblin Galkyd Gel, Liquin Impasto, Weber WOil Gel, Liquin Oleopasto. They have significantly more body than Neo Megilp though the Neo does make some nice looking impasto, just softer. Some are more self leveling than others. Read what the maker says about each before you purchase them so you will know what to expect. I have used all of them but Liquin Impasto which appears to be the one that would give more pronounced brush strokes than the others.

                                                    You can increase the thickness of any of these or your paint alone even more by adding stuff to them such as calcium carbonate or fumed silica.

                                                    https://www.tadspurgeon.com/content.php?page=putty+tutorial

                                                    https://www.tadspurgeon.com/content.php?page=formulas

                                                    #1271595
                                                    Docpro
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                                                        My 2 cents:

                                                        1) Impaste any way you wish, but never with Gamblin paints (Gamblin’s Walnut oil paints make for a terrible impasto (slushy, translucent, slow drying, etc. … = pure misery))! Acrylic, Alkyd, and/or Linseed Oil paints all are great. If you want to use a buttery (impasto) medium for extra thickness, that’s fine, methinks.

                                                        And/or you can use a stringy (flow) medium (acrylics: “pouring medium”, oils: alkyd and/or resin)

                                                        You may want to make your brush marks and/or knife marks authoritative, jagged, expressive, etc. … and/or sensitive, flowing, stringy, etc.

                                                        If in doubt, just use any buttery tube of paint (like Van Gogh, iirc) with nothing else and stay authoritative, jagged, expressive, etc.

                                                        2a) Glaze any way you wish with any oil and/or resin medium
                                                        … Slushy Gamblin paints work well for glazes if you opt for oil.
                                                        AVOID PHTHALO colors (emphasis added) … unless you want to kill any precious warmth (orange-reds) remaining in the underlayers.
                                                        Killing precious warmth in underlayers is my NO. 1 mistake (30 years).

                                                        2b) Atelier Interactive Acrylics with Clear Medium make excellent glazes atop acrylics especially (or atop well dried oils, JMO,IMHO). These can be “unlocked” with water and/or “Unlocking Medium” for days.

                                                        Utmost blessings!

                                                        #1271588
                                                        WFMartin
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                                                            Gosh, Rembrandt was famous for his technique of glazing thin layers of dark paint over light colors of impasto paint. His portraits are almost living proof of that fact.

                                                            Rembrandt certainly worked with traditional paints, and I’m sure he had no access to alkyd paint, alkyd mediums, gel mediums, or even driers. Yet, he was quite capable of creating this sort of effect by merely applying his impasto paint in an appropriate manner, using his self-made paint, allowing it to dry, and then applying thin glazes over it.

                                                            Personally I see very little need for much of the driers, alkyds, and untraditional materials that have been mentioned in this thread.

                                                            Paint will dry without the use of driers–even impasto paint. It just requires some drying time. Keep a dozen paintings in progress at the same time, and you will be easily capable of achieving this sort of effect with traditional methods, and materials.:)

                                                            If I were trying to emulate this technique, I’d use a Linseed Oil-based paint, with a bit of Linseed/Turpentine medium, when it seemed necessary, and paint away. Those are the fastest drying materials that were in the hands of the old masters, and the use of the solvent, Turpentine, is sometimes questioned. But, it would surely speed up the drying time!

                                                            wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
                                                            https://williamfmartin.blogspot.com

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