Home Forums Explore Media Acrylics Varnish issue… Can I just gloss over it? (unhappy with satin finish)

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  • #991798
    mythself
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        good day,

        Can I paint gloss over satin and forget I ever did the satin?

        the details:

        I’ve made an acrylic painting for a small restaurant wall. 3 large panels each over a metre square in size to create a large panarama – A new scale for me in figurative painting… but fun – I’m going to do more!

        To protect it in its busy environs I decided to apply a varnish. I applied three coats Liquitex permanent Acrylic Gloss varnish and was happyish although concerned about glare decided after a little research on line to do a finish coat or two in solvent based varnish. My art store is limited, I chose Windsor and Newton, artists varnish, satin finish. Being a fool, I painted all the panels at once before waiting 24 hrs to see the effect of the Satin coat… urgh, there a nasty fog over the otherwise deep blacks, i hate this satin finish!! it makes the whole look like a poor print! In moderate panic I decided to act and removed, using turpentine the last coat of varnish on one of the panels. phughhh, picture restored but cleaning very carefully such a large panels time consuming and too smelly and makes me nervous!

        noticing how with the application of turps, the gloss is temporarily revived, like a wet stone, I wonder if I might best save the day by applying a coat of gloss varnish to the other 2 remaining panels and so negate the need for at least a day spent in smelly cleaning. Any one with any experience of such daft situation? perhaps I’m the only dummy! Thanks.:crossfingers:

        #1203894

        I have painted gloss over satin when I picked up the wrong varnish originally. I did not have any problem with it but then I did not have a haze over black. I do not know if it will be completely rescued and the only way to tell would be to try on the gloss varnish on a small part of the hazy area.

        Carol
        "Mercifully free of the ravages of intelligence" - Time Bandits[/color]
        Moderator: Acrylic Forum
        My websites: Discoveries With Colour Adventures in Photography[/B]

        #1203895
        Guide
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            Satin varnish is created by starting with gloss varnish and adding a white powder to cut the sheen. Putting a coat of gloss over top will make it a gloss finish over the haze I fear. It is certainly worth the effort to see what happens but don’t expect it to correct everything. That would be my take on it.

            Click here to go to the information kiosk My You Tube Channel 48hlc48
            The only person you can't fool, is yourself! (Oz The Great and Powerful)
            "If you think you can, or think you can't, your right!"
            "The thing about art is that life is in no danger of being meaningless," Robert Genn

            #1203902
            mythself
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                Ok. thanks a lot for those replies.

                I think I’ll get the turps out!

                The cleaning off of the satin varnish with turps did in fact knock the super gloss of the original acrylic gloss varnish back a tad… although i must stress In the cleaning I was hardly rubbing at all, I’d say ‘super softly gently’ wiping with the softest lint free cloths I had. Working In 15cm squares, using a turps impregnated cloth, then leaving it for 1-2 mins then gently wiping off and wetting the next square etc. …then very gently going back over the original area with more turps on the cloth until the satin varnish was gone. After that I finally went over any areas which looked marred again until nothing seemed to remain. And after that very gentle wiping with some warm soapy water.

                #1203903
                mythself
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                    A day after…

                    The cleaned surface is far from perfect but in general the richness of colour that was lost to the satin finish is back. However on close inspection it seems there are some small areas of the painting that appear to have had allowed moisture? penetration into the permanent varnish coat (made up of three coats).

                    I’ve read much on here and about the net regarding varnish nightmares and guess I had to have one to fully understand the thing. Will I varnish again? I’m just not sure. Unvarnished paintings have a quality all of their own. And vulnerability over time? … perhaps that someone elses business. Initial searches on line lead me to youtube where sponsored ‘artists’ sympathetically demonstrate varnishing techniques and the NEED to varnish. Of course they have a vested commercial interest in the NEED for me to varnish.

                    hmmm, I’ve learn’t a lot in this exercise and the sick tummy feeling I currently have shall deffo give the lesson gravity.:cool:

                    the picture? it’s here. On the wall of the restaurant I don’t think the surface issues will really show. (My client over saw the composition, the central character his logo. was mandatory… for me it was a really valuable technical. com-positional and portraiture painting exercise) hey ho.

                    #1203897
                    gaykir
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                        What a great mural you’ve created. I love it. What kind of food do they serve? I can guess but I hope you’ll tell us!

                        http://gaylekirbyart.blogspot.com/

                        #1203901
                        members
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                            Gorgeous mural, glad you resolved the varnish problem for the most part.

                            #1203896
                            Guide
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                                Really distinctive style. I find it most appealing. Well done IMHO.

                                Click here to go to the information kiosk My You Tube Channel 48hlc48
                                The only person you can't fool, is yourself! (Oz The Great and Powerful)
                                "If you think you can, or think you can't, your right!"
                                "The thing about art is that life is in no danger of being meaningless," Robert Genn

                                #1203904
                                mythself
                                Default

                                    Thanks for the compliments.

                                    I cleaned the final board yesterday. I’d got my cleaning technique down by then finally working in 30cm squares with lots of clean very soft micro fibre cloths to take the varnish off when the initial turps soft wash over had dissolved the varnish.

                                    Should I give it a another coat of varnish? acrylic or soluble? to re-unify? I really don’t know.

                                    The restaurant is called the ‘ le melting pot’, it’s in Cherbourg, Normandy. The chef/owner is a friend of mine and he wanted a figurative realistic ish style. He’s worked in kitchens ‘all’ over the world and its reflected in his small ever changing menu. He cooks from scratch 4 or 5 daily stews/curries/ragouts fresh ingredients etc.

                                    It’s about my first large scale figure composition and I really enjoyed making/painting it, especially the flesh parts! sadly I couldn’t paint from live models… I would get friends where I could, but my wife and I modeled all the positions and i’d sketch from these digital photos and refer back to them for tonal details etc… half of the ‘faces’ where based on pics I found on the net the other half I had friends model and the guy pointing is a portrait of the patron. The photo self model thing is actually a technique I’ve been using for a while in my toy soldier production… for these pictures it’s… ‘conceptually implicit’ but that painting is in Gouache and much smaller scale the figures are also ‘isolated’, composition creation left to those who play with my toy soldiers! (if you google ‘walkerloo’ there’s plenty of pics… even a film or two!)

                                    The stumpy figures proportions are just the way I seem to draw figures… even after years of life drawing! also I guess from the toysoldiers via? medi-evil sculpture? Stanley Spencer? 70’s BBC children’s shows, Beryl Cook, Paula Rega…?

                                    I’ve put together a couple of comp pics that show the composition development if it’s of interest to any one (my friend asked me for such a pic for the restaurant bathroom!).

                                    Before the ‘melting pot’ composition I had many other ideas but my friend preferred this, perhaps the more conservative of several propositions. I wanted him as the chef to be in the centre but he pleaded to have his ‘logo babe’ here so hey ho… however this plea came at the end of the figure composing and I never completely re-resolved the off centre composition … its kind of two pictures. next time. I also kind of regret how reliant i became on taking photographs but it such a quick form of image gathering in such a complex and detailed realisticish composition. The photo portrait comp which most resembles the final composition I did just now, all these figure photos were done as i needed them as ‘reference’ whilst painting the picture. The photos were modeled on the figure sketches in the pic above it.

                                    The paint technique is a chardin-esque dark to light ‘scrub’ method I stumbled together after some afternoon painting classes at my local art school. , I paint on to a plywood and I wear through a lot of brushes. Board is what I’m used too because the only other large scale pics I’ve done are for ‘photobooth’ paintings which need to be sturdy in my personal pretend war ‘the battle of walkerloo’… although actually I also did a huge figurative for a mural in a museum show last summer… but that 1Om long picture was done in two weeks to a dead line. The technique was ‘get it on quick’! I messed with a canvas last summer and was amazed at how easily the paint ‘applied’ compared to the hard board – I may try some canvas work later this year…

                                    crikey what an essay!

                                    #1203899
                                    Dcam
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                                        You can certainly paint the gloss over the satin.
                                        I had a painting that was just too glossy for me, and I actually painted a matt varnish over it. It did the trick.

                                        What a fabulous mural. :clap:

                                        Derek

                                        #1203898
                                        jennifervs
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                                            Glad your varnish issue was resolved! But the painting looks fabulous!!!!

                                            #1203900
                                            PB29
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                                                Describing your technique as the Chardin-esque dark-to-light scrub method is intriguing. Will have to read up on Chardin to learn more. The mural is great!

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