Home Forums The Art Business Center General Art Business Is a self-taught artist really an artist?

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  • #986932
    Old_hobbyest
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        Last week, at a local workshop, a gallery owner asked to see a portfolio of my work. I picked out a variety of acrylic pics done over the last few months. She and two of her exhibiting colleagues enthusiastically agreed to hang several in an upcoming show. She presented me with a contract stating her percentage. The contract asked for my academic experience – you know, my art school, my instructors, etc. When I told her I was self-taught, she withdrew the contract and thanked me for my time!

        This is now the third time this has happened to me. Previously, one art league hung my work as a “patron” but would not jury me in as a member. And a state art group juried in my thematic piece for their touring exhibition, hung it, then returned it a week later when they found I wasn’t trained as an artist.

        My question is: Is a self-trained artist really considered an artist in the real art world? Or are we just hobbiests?

        #1097152
        Liz
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            Wow, I’m stunned by that! The artist’s work should speak for itself and not what kind of formal art training he or she has had.

            My Art
            --------------------

            #1097033

            It happens. While not self-taught I took an alternative route and don’t have an art degree – so I had to build up my resume with local shows (restaurants, small local art groups, cafes, tourist info building, libraries, etc) and some juried exhibitions.

            I did eventually get to the point where the lack of art degree became irrelevent, though I still do have to stress that I did train for several years in a structured way (I trained with an artist rather than at art school). Another way to boost this is to take classes – I took a lot of drawing, painting and printmaking courses (usually 8-12 week classes, though there was one that I took continually for about 2 years) at various art schools. While I didn’t get a degree with any of them the fact that my private study was supplemented with formal courses also seemed to help. Also having other degrees again seemed to help me – I had a very concrete reason why I did not opt for formal art school that art people also could understand (I had recently finished 7 years of academic study when I decided to take up painting).

            As I say, it didn’t matter as much once I had established a list of exhibitions even if they weren’t galleries. They still *asked* but the value of an art degree was balanced against a stronger background and the work itself. Galleries wanted to see that I had been producing work consistently for some time and had built up to a certain level of showing and was ready for a gallery, even a small local one.

            Reception will vary by geography. I’m in London so it was a large obstacle at first.

            My message in all of this is essentially that you must form your responses to these questions. Can you confidently and professionally describe why you did not attend art school? In a way that shows how you chose this profession in a directed way? Can you show a history of your solid work – either shows or engaging in art events in some way? Can you talk about your work confidently so as to divert attention from your educational record? Can you build an impressive resume while leaving out education completely?

            These are the things to focus on. :) And remember – a gallery that is only interested in your degree or lack of one is probably not the right gallery for your work anyway. Working with galleries should be a mutual relationship, not an unbalanced power relationship.

            Tina.

            Abstract coast and geology art: www.tina-m.com | Art/Science gallery: www.grejczikgallery.com

            #1097124
            mudslinger
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                she sounds like a hypocritical snob to me…just because you had no formal training your work was suddenly not good enough? man, she wouldn’t have liked me too much…

                [FONT=Book Antiqua]you don't quit laughing when you grow old.you grow old when you quit laughing!

                ancientcityinkworks.com

                #1097098
                aderfla
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                    I won’t add too much because Tina pretty much said exactly what I agree with. I don’t have a degree, but have pretty much done what Tina suggests for you.

                    I am a bit stunned by the attitude though as being self taught can be a huge selling point.

                    :cat:

                    #1097064
                    V.Bleile
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                        As Tina said, it does happen.

                        “Is a self-trained artist really considered an artist in the real art world? Or are we just hobbiests?” IMHO, yes, a self-trained artist is a real artist. Many have said, let your art speak for itself. Obviously, your art spoke, and they liked what they heard,…. Until their educational elitism took over. It’s their loss, not yours. Move on and try to not look back.

                        Vicki

                        #1097106
                        Bringer
                        Default

                            Hi,

                            I live in Portugal, but most galleries that I see on the net are, of course, american.
                            The really good ones (those who present quality work and not by acquaintance) care about the quality of the work most than anything; this of course when choosing new artists. At least this is the impression that I have.
                            I believe that a good exhibitions and sales curriculum is far more important than a degree. With this I don’t want to say that a degree is not important. Of course it is because a degree in Art like any other degree or study is always important and it should be taken in consideration.
                            Good luck !

                            Kind regards,

                            José


                            Read about it on my Blog

                            I'm not lazy because I sleep until late. I just dream alot.

                            #1097144
                            Anonymous

                                That is pathetic!!! The gallery and state art group should be ashamed of themselves.

                                Not worth being associated with IMO.

                                #1097130
                                Polygon
                                Default

                                    While not self-taught I took an alternative route and don’t have an art degree – so I had to build up my resume with local shows (restaurants, small local art groups, cafes, tourist info building, libraries, etc) and some juried exhibitions.

                                    I find it so bizarre that in a field like art, which is filled with people who are a bit unconventional and follow the beat of a different drummer, that formal art schooling is still considered so important, as is “building up a resume” and so on. So doggoned… conventional…

                                    The only thing that should ever matter is your PORTFOLIO of past and current works! Art students can graduate into crappy artists and fab artists might not have ever been to art school.

                                    Interestingly, I was self-employed in commercial art, and nobody ever asks to see a resume, or asks me where I went to school (I didn’t, not for art), and few even asked to see a portfolio (although I would ask them to look at it to make sure they knew what kind of art and design I did!). All that mattered was the ability to deliver well, and the fact that their buddy so-and-so had said I was good and to call me.

                                    I think it’s the societal-wide “guild” system at play- those who have done the academic hoops insist that they’re a crucial part of becoming an artist (or whatever), and are in enough positions of power that they perpetuate the requirement and the ridiculous concept that it’s the only way.

                                    We’ve all been convinced school is the only way to learn, when indeed it’s only one way, and rarely the best or most efficient way.

                                    Comments and critiques are always welcome.

                                    #1097097
                                    susme48
                                    Default

                                        Not only am I self taught, I am also new, to painting, and I ran into a similar thing. I went to a gallery, just to get an idea of how to price my work, since this is a pretty rural area. The “lady” at the desk refused to look at my work after she asked where I studied. She was an art student at Ole Miss, and told me I should look around the gallery, and learn about art. I actually had enough guts to go elsewhere, and the gentleman said “wow”, twice while looking at my work, and only questioned the fact that I had only been painting for 2 months at that point. The 3rd gallery asked me to show my work. I say this not because I think I am a great artist….I have soooooo far to go to reach that point, but because of the difference in the three people. I may be new, but I have sold one painting, which I guess is not too bad for 5months. I got juried into the local art guild because of that sale, and look forward to all that they will be able to teach me; along with all the help I have gotten here at WC. I may be old but this dog is learning new tricks, I just don’t have the money or time for classes or school.

                                        [FONT="Impact"]♥ [FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]§usan [FONT="Impact"]♫

                                        "Painting is silent poetry, and poetry is painting with the gift of speech." ~Simonides
                                        "Who said one paints with colors? One employs colors, but one paints with feeling."

                                        ~Jean-Baptiste-Siméon Chardin
                                        [/CENTER]
                                        Susan's Soul________ Blog_______ Yessy

                                        #1097034

                                        It’s also important to remember that we can’t look at this from a personal, emotional point of view. We must view it from the viewpoint of the gallery, as a business. Different galleries will also differ in their approach, the kinds of artists they represent – most likely because their CLIENTS do! If a gallery will not take on a non-degreed artist this may very well be because their clientelle expect a certain level of artist CV-wise.

                                        The only thing that should ever matter is your PORTFOLIO of past and current works!

                                        OF COURSE IT ISN’T! This isn’t a business working on quality alone. It really really isn’t. I think you agree, of course, because you too see work that seems inferior. There are brilliant artists creating masterpieces that will never be seen. There are artists churning out decorative wall-hangings that may become rich on it. It’s all about marketing yourself and the work.

                                        Are galleries snobbish? Of course! Though a better word is selective. Or focused. But that happens in lots of professions. This is just another profession. Galleries are trying to run businesses and taking a risk on a artist that doesn’t fit the profile they need is not always worth it – sometimes they will take the risk, but they have to balance it against their costs and possibilities of selling. They select what fits their business plan and chosen market. Despite what we may wish to think, they are not in it out of a love for art most of the time.

                                        They may not be right, your work may have sold out! But we all make business decisions by weighing the pros and cons. So do they. As Susan found, a different gallery may be very happy to take a risk and show your work! (and showing any artist’s work involves some level of risk on th gallery’s part, even well-established artists)

                                        This is one very important reason for approaching galleries that show work of artists in your genre and career level. Approach galleries whose business plan, whose risk assessment, you fit into. (not to say you can’t try others too, of course!)

                                        Tina.

                                        Abstract coast and geology art: www.tina-m.com | Art/Science gallery: www.grejczikgallery.com

                                        #1097053
                                        jocelynsart
                                        Default

                                            I believe that inclination to the arts, any of the arts, is born then developed on top of that. A person can be an artist but never having delved into any education in the arts. However, also, someone can have an interet in the arts and enjoy doing art their whole lives, but never progress past a certain point because that extra needed thing is just not there. Either person will choose to attempt to enter the professional art would at times.
                                            Art can be one of those things that education may be unnecessary. But, like with any skill, trade, career, or serious pursuit, education does Add to development.
                                            Most professional galleries do want their represented artists to have an educated background, and even previous shows. It would depend on the level of gallery or the curator. But, it will of course depend on the artists work first and foremost.
                                            If this gallery owner at first liked your work but then rejected you for no education background, then I feel she is being silly and narrow minded. However, I would not take that as an indication that All artists that chose not to enter into education for their art, art Not artists. It was just her preference to have educated artists represented. Don’t take it to heart, continue your pursuits and don’t worry about it.
                                            Jocelyn

                                            #1097025
                                            blondheim12
                                            Default

                                                Unfortunately it still does matter. To be honest, I would not have gotten as far in terms of resume building , a museum history, being a listed artist and so forth without my formal art school credentials.

                                                That has nothing to do with skill level of course but rather to do with an entre’ into the fine art establishment.

                                                There are many different levels for artists, and in my opinion they are all equally legitimate, but, there are many art snobs out there who do rely on art school credentials for their opinion making.

                                                I’m sorry to say that much of the snobbery in art is perpetuated by the artists themselves. I know painters who will not paint with non-professionals, or who won’t show wth painters they feel are inferior. I am disgusted by this attitude. I will paint or show with any artist and regularly paint with hobbyists.

                                                It’s a mean ol’ world out there unfortunately. Kick that gallery to the curb and go foward. You will eventually succeed on the merit of your work. May I suggest that you refer to yourself as an emerging artist rather than self taught? In the fine art world, self taught has a negative connotation. Not my opinion but others’.
                                                Love,
                                                Linda

                                                Linda Blondheim Art
                                                http://www.lindablondheim.com
                                                Blondheim Art and Stories
                                                http://www.blondheimartandstories.com

                                                #1097114
                                                SCWheeler
                                                Default

                                                    Plastechie ~
                                                    What a bizzare series of events… and in Tampa? As a digital artist I can tell you first hand that we’re in the middle of a serious shift in attitudes about art and previously heralded art experts may be struggling to maintain their position as the “expert.” I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the cheese has moved and the savvy artist can use this transition time, that is being aggressively defended against by previously successful vendors, to their advantage. The acceptance of my art in 2007 over 2006 and previous years was much larger. Did I improve? No doubt I did, but it also was a broadening of understanding by the end purchaser that they can be their own judge of what is good art and they aren’t hesitating to do that.

                                                    Reflecting on your experience I had a few thoughts off the top of my head… First, perhaps you need to develop your “story” which now should certainly include what you just experienced with acceptance and then rejection from academic elitist (the impressionist experienced a similar rejection even though most were trained in traditional realism at respectable schools, their work was rejected because it deviated from their education)…. I suggest this because that’s what the gallery is looking for when they ask about your education anyway, your “story.” They know from experience their buyers have spent money before because the artist’s “story” fit a mold they had worked out together. I think if you can weave a short, but interesting, story of your journey to becoming a shown artist it might make all the difference in working with the galleries or others you may desire to have sell for you.

                                                    It’s also very important to make sure your whole package – how you present yourself – is in order so that the gallery ONLY has the question of your education to overcome when showing and selling you. When you are a selling artist you are a brand and as much as you can do to refine the presentation of your brand will making working w/ others easier.

                                                    In the mean time, trust that everything happens for a reason, grow from it, accept it as a lesson that you have an information gap you need to fill and continue to put your heart and soul into your art KNOWING it will all come together in your highest good and it will!

                                                    Suzanne Clem-Wheeler
                                                    Artist and Computer Workshop Educator

                                                    www.suzanneclemwheeler.com

                                                    #1097120
                                                    LWaterfield
                                                    Default

                                                        … First, perhaps you need to develop your “story” I suggest this because that’s what the gallery is looking for when they ask about your education anyway, your “story.”

                                                        It’s also very important to make sure your whole package – how you present yourself – is in order so that the gallery ONLY has the question of your education to overcome when showing and selling you.

                                                        In the mean time, trust that everything happens for a reason, grow from it, accept it as a lesson that you have an information gap you need to fill and continue to put your heart and soul into your art KNOWING it will all come together in your highest good and it will!

                                                        SC took the words out of my mouth….and said it much better than I could!
                                                        I know the first inclination is to dwell on the feeling of rejection & become either depressed or indignant, but, what good does that do anybody?!
                                                        Instead, choose to learn- and this gallery may teach you how to get into the next. For your next presentation, make an appointment and walk in with confidence- with a presentation book in hand, ready to leave it with the person in charge. Have matching business cards & letterhead, with an Artist’s Statement and Resume or CV and several images on CD and printed out in your book- and have the professional attitude to go with it!
                                                        **Many others have done this and succeeded- you can too**
                                                        Act like a pro and you will become one.
                                                        FWIW, I spent 20+ years in textile design, working as Creative Artist, then Art Director for very large companies, and in all that time only had one Recruiter react to me with “How the h** have gotten the positions you’ve gotten without a degree in Art?? Those are Masters level positions!!”
                                                        It can be done if you’ve got the talent and professional attitude to do the work. God will put you where you need to be.


                                                        Painting the intimate scenes, grand landscapes and wildlife of our natural world.
                                                        www.lauriwaterfield.com
                                                        www.lauriwaterfield.com/blog

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