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  • #983258
    Dima
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        Hello oilpastelists on wetcanvas,

        Recently I wanted to try out oilpastels and found that there is not much information on this medium or that it is at least hard to find.
        On the other hand there seem to be a number of people in this forum doing oilpastels (the OPgang, Sundiver, Mikki, Mo and E-J spring to mind) and the last two weeks a number of newcomers like myself with a lot of questions.

        I would like to start this thread to see where we will get if we put together, combine and systemize what we may know and can find on this medium.
        And see if we can build some sort of knowledgebase or referencesystem for beginners and the more experienced alike.

        Hope you think this to be a good idea and that many may contribute to it.

        Dick.

        For starters there are two sites on the web that are closely related.
        The american and the international oilpastel organisations and the founder of both is John Elliot.
        He seems to be the godfather, the expert and a long time advocate of oil pastels as a sreious medium in the fine arts.

        http://johnelliot.com/index.htm

        It looks as if this site is not allways very much up-to-date, but they do contain a lot information and links.
        The FAQ is very informative and you can put your own questions.

        Books:

        The only one readily available is by (yes, again) John Elliot:
        Oil Pastel for the Serious Beginner; Basic Lessons in Becoming a Good Painter.
        See Amazon or Barnes and Noble.

        Another appearently very good one is by Kenneth D. Leslie but that one is out of print and now a collectors item doing something like $200.

        In the (classical) Walter Foster series you may find:
        152 – Painting with oilpastel by H.P. McLaughlin or
        159 – Stella Mackie paints heads in oilpastels.

        The Pastel Journal features two oilpastelists in every edition.

        As Sundiver and Jackie Simmonds pointed out somewhere in this forum Bill Creevy has a section on oilpastels in his Pastelbook.

        Almost every artist handbook has a page or two on oilpastels all mentioning the possibility of scraffito techniques, blending with turps and using the waterressistant properties with watermedia.
        Read one and you’ve read them all.

        There are some demonstrations of the use of waxy crayons, oilpastels and the combination of both to found in a series: curso completo de dibujo y pintura by Parramon Ediciones. (tekenen en schilderen van Larousse in dutch)

        Think this will do for the moment.
        Dick

        #1008719
        Dima
        Default

            Oilpastels are pigments mixed with a substance of wax and oil, hence the name.
            Wax crayons contain more wax and no oil.

            Some wax crayons are made to be watersoluable, others like oilpastels can be worked and blended with turps.
            For those who like to work this way but dislike or can stand turps, I found some good news on the Faber-Castell site: they claim babyoil can be used to the same effect with all oilpastels.
            (if anybody has done this or will try, please let us know about it)

            The oils in oilpastels are mineral oils.
            This touches on the issue can you use oilpastel on paper or will it eat the paper the way oilpaint does?
            John Elliot says no because oilpastels contain inert oil whereas regular oils contain chemically active oil.
            Or as Don Nederhand (technical advisor to Royal Talens) put it: as the pastels contain a non-drying oil there is no oxydation and no damaging of the paper.
            On the other hand in the Pastel Journal no. 24 Anne Heywood says that she carefully chooses paper that have a protective coating to act as a buffer because oilpastels contain oil and acid in oil breaks down paper fibers.
            Larry Seiler somewhere in these forums says the same about acid in oils breaking down the paper and has a lesson here on WC to make your own archival canvasboards.

            So my little inquiry leaves the matter undecided for the time being.
            If you want to be absoluty certain of durability use a coating
            W&N clear gesso base or Golden acrylic ground for pastels have a pleasant texture that will take some layers.
            For a smoother ground an acrylic medium should do.

            Dick

            #1008789
            NewCreation
            Default

                I have nothing to add except thank you, and I will be watching this thread closely.

                #1008801
                E-J
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                    Dick, this thread is an excellent idea ~ good on you for getting it off to a great start :)

                    We could also give recommendations for brands of oil pastel to use, to avoid repeating this information in response to the posts from op newbies who are finding out that the cheaper brands are gritty, greasy, scratchy and difficult to work with.

                    I use Caran d’Ache Neopastel ~ not to be confused with their range of artist’s crayons Neocolor & Neocolor II. Others here recommend Sennelier.

                    Oil pastels from Dick Blick dot com:

                    http://www.dickblick.com/categories/oilpastels/%5B/URL%5D

                    #1008720
                    Dima
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                        Thanks Amy and E-J.
                        And thanks for the Dick Blick link E-J, I like their categorization of artist- , student- and scholastic grade pastels and vote for maintaining this terminology/subdivision here.

                        I think there is some general agreement that Holbein, Sennelier and Caran dÁche Neopastels are artist grade.

                        Another brand I suspect of making artist quality is the Maimeri classico oil pastels.
                        Anyone familiar with these?
                        Maimeri gave me a emailaddress of a dealer in Belgium but they haven’t reacted to my mail.

                        Dick

                        #1008765

                        I use Holbein Artist-grade oil pastels (Holbein also has a student-grade version), and recently, Caran D’ache. I love the Holbeins, like the Caran D’aches.
                        Haven’t tried Sennelliers yet.
                        I have blended oil pastels with baby oil. Any oil will work, but it’s pretty greasy and you need thick paper to absorb it.

                        Wendy C&C always welcome
                        Everybody likes feedback! Please remember to comment on others' threads, even if it's just a "nice work" post.

                        #1008730
                        Mo.
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                            Hi Dick…good for you for starting this thread…like you I have searched for info on oil pastels without much success, I used them years and years ago before furthering to oil paints, and now I’m trying to remember what I did all those years ago….my memory is not that good these days, :).

                            I must have done some good paintings as I sold a few at art fairs. I still have my original Caran D’ache oil pastels, when I came to use them initially I thought they had dried out…but this was not so, can you believe after 25 years the colours are still fresh and workable, they had a white milky film over them, but once warmed up they woked like new again.

                            I have since bought some Senneliers, but I have to say I still think the Caran D’ache are superior, also I found in my box of oil pastels some thinner sticks called Pentel, don’t know if these are still around, they are a little harder to use than Caran D’ache and Sennelier, but still quite good quality… I also bought recently a box of Daler-Rowney oil pastels…now you would think that they would be good being a well known brand name…all I can say is they are not, too waxy by far..may be okay for initial laying in of colour to save on the more expensive ones.

                            I’ve been experimenting and learning by my own mistakes of late, so if anyone wants to know of my learning experiences I’m willing to share them…it’s all trial and error at the moment, I’ma long way off being an expert on them … but hope to be. :)

                            Cheers,
                            Mo.

                            #1008829
                            Sueb
                            Default

                                Dick, Thanks for starting this much needed thread. Here are my favorite materials and tips from a recent class. I noticed the other day that the review section did not have any products reviewed so I will head over there and post my reviews with more detail on those that I have tried.

                                My favorites…. in order of best first. Holbein, Caran d’ache NeoPastels, Sennelier, Sakura Craypas.

                                I was taught that the paper should be a treated, sealed surface and if it has a sanded texture it’s already been treated. This is so the oils do not seep through and damage the paper. Because I did not know any better, I ordered a sampler of paper that included some that met that criteria and some that did not. I have tried most types in the package and have pretty much decided that I like the sanded surface better anyway. Wallis is my favorite and I buy the Plein Air pads in 9×12 size. I prefer to work on a colored surface so mix up an acrylic wash in peach (my instructors favorite), orange , reddish or yellow oche. This take the pressure off of trying to cover all of those white holes because oil pastels are not really that blendable and I like the warm atmosphere is give to the landscapes I personally favor.

                                We used soft pastel pencils(no graphite). I can’t remember why, but will try to remember to ask next time I have a session. That is a another week away though.

                                I have used Turpenoid but did not really like the results. If I think of anything else, I’ll add it later. The most important thing in my opinion is good pastels and good paper. There is a difference! Hope this helps some.

                                Sue

                                Sue B
                                C & C always welcome.

                                #1008731
                                Mo.
                                Default

                                    Sue: Thanks for the tips, I’ve been using Liquin and white spirit for blending the oil pastels…did this years ago, one of my friends still has the dog portrait I did for her 25 years on her wall, done on cansons pastel paper….and still looks as good as the day I painted it.

                                    Cheers,
                                    Mo.

                                    #1008830
                                    Sueb
                                    Default

                                        Mo, Thanks. I will have do give it another try. Did you use a brush to blend or another method?

                                        Other thoughts on methods I use……
                                        I always lay in my lightest colors first because it’s hard to go light once the paper is stained dark.

                                        Also, an old plastic card (like a credit card) is useful for scraping off paint when you want to make a correction.

                                        I sometimes reach a point where the paper will not accept any more paint so I set it aside for a few days or a week, then more paint easily goes on.

                                        Hey guys, What papers do ya’ll like to use best?

                                        Sueb

                                        Sue B
                                        C & C always welcome.

                                        #1008807
                                        ginatec
                                        Default

                                            Thanks for starting this thread…I have had so much help and advice on this Forum. It is good that we will have all the information in one place and save time for the generous people who reply to us individually.

                                            Web Site :-http://perso.wanadoo.es/ginatec/

                                            #1008802
                                            E-J
                                            Default

                                                I have only tried two types of support with oil pastels on their own: regular Ingres and Daler-Rowney’s special Oil Pastel paper.

                                                http://www.daler-rowney.com/cat/drawsurf/10_11.html

                                                The special op paper comes in spiral-bound pads and has a rather ‘hard’ feel to it which I don’t much like. Besides this, it only comes in white, so you have to think about preparing it first if you prefer to work on a coloured ground.

                                                What I’ve found really effective is using acrylic paper and doing a strong underpainting in acrylics before applying the oil pastel. It probably counts as mixed media the way I do it, with all the major shapes blocked in with paint first, but of course you don’t have to take the underpainting that far. The op adheres quite happily to the acrylic.

                                                #1008721
                                                Dima
                                                Default

                                                    Well I had some Talens panda from a long time ago and some years ago bought a box of Sakura cray-pas that I never used.
                                                    Lately I bought a Talens van Gogh box.
                                                    And that is tha lot I started out with some three weeks ago.
                                                    Today I received a box 24 Daler-Rowneys (Mo, just like you thinking that is a good brand), a box of 36 Goldfabers and a wooden box with 50 Senneliers.
                                                    I intend to also buy some Neopastels.
                                                    And I am curious about the Maimeris.
                                                    Holbeins will be hard to get in my country or in Europe for that matter as they tell me they no longer have a distributor in Europe.

                                                    I do not yet have a good idea/judgement of their properties and how they compare.
                                                    But I will of course let you know when I am.

                                                    Haven’t done underpaintings with oil pastels yet but will in time as that seems a sensible thing to do.

                                                    Mo, the idea of using liquin for blending is new to me.
                                                    Does that work well and doesn’t that ask for a few hours of drying time before you can proceed to work over it?

                                                    Thanks for all your input, everybody.

                                                    Dick

                                                    #1008732
                                                    Mo.
                                                    Default

                                                        I was taught that the paper should be a treated, sealed surface and if it has a sanded texture it’s already been treated. This is so the oils do not seep through and damage the paper. Because I did not know any better, I ordered a sampler of paper that included some that met that criteria and some that did not. I have tried most types in the package and have pretty much decided that I like the sanded surface better anyway. Wallis is my favorite and I buy the Plein Air pads in 9×12 size. I prefer to work on a colored surface so mix up an acrylic wash in peach (my instructors favorite), orange , reddish or yellow oche. This take the pressure off of trying to cover all of those white holes because oil pastels are not really that blendable and I like the warm atmosphere is give to the landscapes I personally favor.

                                                        We used soft pastel pencils(no graphite). I can’t remember why, but will try to remember to ask next time I have a session. That is a another week away though.

                                                        I have used Turpenoid but did not really like the results. If I think of anything else, I’ll add it later. The most important thing in my opinion is good pastels and good paper. There is a difference! Hope this helps some.

                                                        Sue…you say above you used soft pastel? Bit confused here as you laid an initial wash with acrylics… where does the soft pastels come into play? When I painted with oils, I would generally cover the white canvas with a yellow ochre or burnt umber wash just to cover that inhibiting white…why are canvasses always white:D

                                                        I found an old pad of Daler-Rowney oil pastel paper today..interleaved with glassine paper, messed about with it tonight for a while…but not that happy with it, tomorrow I intend to play around with some oil boards..do you know the type? Card covered with some sort of cotton canvas… I think this could be a good support for the oil pastels…I’ll let you know.

                                                        As for other supports, I’ve used in general most pastel papers, but the smooth side is best I find, not the textured side, also using black pastel paper makes the colours very vibrant. Again I’ve only been messing around.

                                                        To answer some other questions raised … I use a pallette knife to scrape off excess and get back to the base… as to blending I also blend with a brush, shapers, cotton buds, fingers, and anything else that comes to hand. :) ..if using white spirit, I dip the brush into the spirit, then take off most of the excess by dabbing the brush a a peice of kitchen roll..then with the brush just damp blend the oils this way… the same with the liquin, don’t overload the brush with the stuff…. it does take time to dry out..but I’m finding that I’m getting some good and interesting results and effects this way. Also as was said earlier, if you leave your work to … I won’t say dry out, ‘cos they don’t really do that, but they do harden, and I find that even after a few hours, I can lay mor oil pastel and work into what is underneath.. the pastels tend to become more and more sticky as they warm up, so it helps to let them cool off a little. :D

                                                        Hope this helps some,

                                                        cheers
                                                        Mo.

                                                        #1008729
                                                        ptantono
                                                        Default

                                                            I know John Elliot is a famous potrait artist but I didnt know that he works with Oil Pastel. Geeee…….he could produce such beautiful potraits with this medium. A difficult blended medium.
                                                            I dont like oil pastel very much, some colors doesnt even want to lay on the paper but I use only student’s grade. :D I work with oil pastel lately for some sample paintings for children to work with later on. Children from Grade 1 to 12 are using oil pastel in the school now.

                                                            Thanks Dick for the thread. I would love to know more. Blending with baby oil, interesting, I am going to try. :rolleyes: I never blend it with anything, pastel to pastel only. The only tool I use to scrap the mistakes is my nail. :D

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