Home Forums Explore Media Oil Painting The Technical Forum Illumination color temperature

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 37 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #463537
    Pinguino
    Default

        Not sure which forum is best for this, but I suspect that oil painters would be most interested….

        Have a look at this article, about best illumination for exhibited art. It discusses color temperature and amount of illumination. A year ago, I inquired at the De Young museum in San Francisco, and they informed me that most paintings were illuminated with halogen track lighting (probably at 3000K color temperature, more or less).

        In my case, I don’t care about exhibiting artwork. Rather, I carry my paint kit in a portable bag, and work on small (5″x7″) boards, doing a little bit at a time, not alla prima. I generally work indoors.

        Sadly, the indoor illumination varies dramatically from place to place and time of day. There is no way that I can get a consistent color temperature for the illumination, and in many cases the lighting is warm-white flourescent, which is deficient in color rendition index. So, when I put away the partially-finished work, and continue somewhere else, it may look very different than I expected.

        I am thinking of obtaining a small portable lamp, into which I can place a high-CRI LED bulb. I could use a halogen bulb, but I wanted something that is less hot and energy-hungry. Such LED bulbs can be obtained at a variety of color temperatures. Well then, which should I try? From the linked article, it seems that 3700K is best; that’s a higher color temperature than halogen (thus, has more blue), but is nowhere near daylight.

        I’ll think about it before buying anything. Does anyone else have experience with this?

        EDIT: If anyone looks at my paintings at all, it will be relatives, who display the paintings in rooms typically illuminated at 20 to 60 foot-candles (according to suggested levels for home use). In the above-linked article, there is a chart showing that pleasing results can be obtained using a color temperature lower than 3700K, at this relatively low level of illumination. In particular, 3000K (as with halogen) should suffice in many cases.

        #713597
        ronsu18
        Default

            ikea, a series called jansjö, built in LED, different models for tabletop – clamp/wall – USB; extremely long lasting, 3000 kelvin.
            https://m.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/art/70386305/

            these are very affordable, but if you move them around a lot be gentle. when they break it’s the entire armature that breaks, not a bulb you can change. mine are three years old, the clamp model, i move them around sporadically. very happy with them.

            C&C welcome

            #713577
            Pinguino
            Default

                The above Ikea lamp does not have high-CRI (color rendition index) bulb.

                #713587
                Tom Murray
                Default

                    I used to use 5500k fluorescent tubes (approximate noon daylight) for some decades.
                    Happily, with the availability of LED floods, I have made the switch.
                    I acquired the bulbs over time as they became more common.
                    My studio has 9 floods aimed at the easel.
                    They range in temperature from 4100k to 5500k.

                    3000k light is way to warm to work under unless you need to simulate the average home or gallery.

                    #713578
                    Pinguino
                    Default

                        3000k light is way to warm to work under unless you need to simulate the average home or gallery.

                        I need to simulate the average home (assuming that my relatives are average). :rolleyes:

                        The trick is “color rendering index” (CRI), which is a measure of how well non-incandescent lights compare to incandescent lights, at a given color temperature. If you have worked under any kind of fluorescent or LED, then unless you had special (expensive) bulbs, the CRI was low. Doesn’t matter whether warm or cool.

                        It may well be that it is better to paint at a higher color temperature than the work will be seen. Not sure. Trying to research this.

                        I should add that since I am not in a studio, I do not need continuous, broad illumination. A small lamp that I can turn on, when needed, will suffice.

                        There do exist high-CRI LED bulbs, that can be installed in some kinds of portable lamps. So, I am only asking about users who have tried this kind of thing.

                        I hope that high-CRI will be the norm in the near future. Currently, that is not the case. So, painting something that looks good under warm-white fluorescent, or standard (low-CRI) LED, or halogen incandescent, would be OK now, but possibly not OK in the near future.

                        #713569
                        Ron Francis
                        Default

                            Fluorescent lights have peaks in their spectral curves, and LEDs have gaps, possibly leading to metameric failure. (Colours that look identical under one light but different under another light.)
                            If you’re concerned with matching colours while painting, I wouldn’t recommend these no matter what the CRI is. (CRI is not a good indicator in this regard. A candle has a CRI of 100 but would be difficult to mix and match colours under.)

                            My recommendation is Solux M-16 halogen globes. (Run on 12 volts).
                            They come in different colour temperatures, but I think the best is 4700K.
                            I know this is different than average lighting conditions in a home, but lighting would vary considerably. You have to also consider what the artwork will look like throughout the day with natural lighting.

                            So I recommend 4700K because it is good for colour mixing and matching.
                            They are currently the best you can get to simulate natural light with a flat spectral curve.
                            Of course, they run hot unfortunately.

                            Ron
                            www.RonaldFrancis.com

                            #713588
                            Tom Murray
                            Default

                                My paintings look different at all times. Morning, afternoon, gallery lighting, badly lit homes, outside.
                                After watching TV the painting will not look the same as after reading black and white print.
                                The best I can do is create the artwork under well lighted conditions where I can distinguish one hue from another.
                                After it leaves my possession it is out of my control.

                                #713592
                                Raffless
                                Default

                                    Location Location Location. I saw a Sargent being removed from a US art gallery in Boston many years ago, to go on a travel to Europe. As it left the building it looked so DARK it was pretty horrible, all the values were lost. You need to know where the painting is going to end up if not in a museum. Thats why choice of lighting is so variable and not gospel as every homes wall is different.

                                    #713579
                                    Pinguino
                                    Default

                                        @Ron: I did look at Solux halogen. The “run hot” might be a problem. More of a problem is that I would not be using the light for long continuous strethes, but moving it around and often switching it on and off. It’s my understanding that halogen bulbs have short lifetimes under those circumstances. LED, no problem.

                                        You are correct in that CRI doesn’t tell the whole story, even at a specific color temperature. But it seems that there are some very high CRI LED bulbs (at very high prices) that are getting close to temperature color rendition, and can be acquired as several different color temperatures. I am guessing that this is the wave of the future (10 years) when costs come down.

                                        @All: My backup plan is to leave final color adjustment (I do glazing) until the rainy season where I live, which will begin within a few weeks. Then, I can work in a well-lit indoor location that has a southern exposure, but the sky will be solid gray all day.

                                        #713563
                                        AnnieA
                                        Default

                                            ikea, a series called jansjö, built in LED, different models for tabletop – clamp/wall – USB; extremely long lasting, 3000 kelvin.
                                            [url]https://m.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/art/70386305/[/url]

                                            these are very affordable, but if you move them around a lot be gentle. when they break it’s the entire armature that breaks, not a bulb you can change. mine are three years old, the clamp model, i move them around sporadically. very happy with them.

                                            Hey Ronsu, I tried that same IKEA lamp for painting, but found the color of the light was too warm, and it was also too bright. Perhaps if I hadn’t tried it clamped to my easel but instead had located it further away the brightness issue would have been taken care of, but I don’t know if moving it would have mattered in regard to color temperature. Does the warmth of a light drop off with distance?

                                            I had thought warmer lights would make for a better painting, but although displaying a painting under warmer lights may make it look better, painting under them does not necessarily result in a better painting. What I think happens is when one chooses paints based on the too-warm light, the eye compensates for the warmth and this leads to the mixing of too-cool hues. This means the painting may look yucky under other lighting conditions.

                                            I’ve been trying for years to get the my lighting right and still haven’t managed to, although some of the problem has to do with space (lack thereof) considerations, as well as financial ones, as I could not afford the high-end halogen bulbs that Ron Francis recommends. I’ve been using LEDs, so maybe the CRI is the issue. It occurs to me that this might also explain why it’s so difficult for me to take decent photos of my work.

                                            The bulbs on the IKEA lamp apparently last nearly forever. It’s now a nice reading lamp next to my bed and I’m very happy with it for that.

                                            [FONT=Arial]C&C always welcome ©[/I] [/font]
                                            [FONT=Palatino]
                                            “Life is a pure flame and we live by an invisible sun within us.” ― Sir Thomas Browne [/size][/font]

                                            http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/29-Jul-2007/85002-sig-thumbnail_composite_2.jpg]/img]

                                            #713580
                                            Pinguino
                                            Default

                                                I suspect that many readers do not know what color rendition index (CRI) means. It is NOT the same as color temperature, and is not even related to it.

                                                Here’s a good commercial page, that really describes what high-CRI does, and also discusses its relation to color temperature. Other vendors also have similar pages, but I think this linked page is the easiest to understand.

                                                A theoretically correct color temperature is emitted by an ideal incandescent (glows due to temperature alone) bulb. Real incandescent bulbs are not ideal (in the sense of mathematical physics), but they are close enough, and can be manufactured. So, an incandescent bulb is given a CRI of 100 for those temperatures that can be reached by filaments. At higher temperatures, where a filament would melt, the standard for CRI 100 is daylight.

                                                A traditional tungsten lamp, at maybe 2700K temperature, has CRI 100 and color temperature 2700K. A tungsten halogen lamp, at 3000K temperature, has a CRI of 100 and color temperature 3000K.

                                                But a warm-white fluorescent lamp, intended to be a substitute for incandescent, does NOT have CRI 100, regardless of its (largely fictitious) color temperature. This is because the amount of colors radiated, across the entire spectrum, does not follow the smooth curve of an incandescent lamp. Even if the fluorescent lamp emulates a different color temperature, it will not have CRI 100.

                                                Thus, regardless of color temperature, colors will look different under incandescent or fluorescent illumination.

                                                Where I ordinarily paint indoors, the prevailing warm-white fluorescent illumination has a low CRI. In particular, it is deficient in the yellow-green range (appearing more as a magenta lamp, than as an incandescent). This makes a BIG difference in how the painted colors look, as I have discovered.

                                                The same applies to LED lamps, which generally have a low CRI.

                                                It is possible to purchase high-CRI fluorescent tubes, and high-CRI LED bulbs. They are expensive. Although they still do not match the color emission of incandescent, they are a lot closer.

                                                Of course, many folks only see artwork as online images, where the colors are necessarily distorted quite a bit.

                                                If you have a fluorescent or LED lamp, then unless it specifically says that it is high-CRI, you can be sure that it is NOT, and that it will distort colors regardless of its stated color temperature.

                                                In any case, there are critiques of CRI, because it doesn’t tell the whole story. But it sure helps.

                                                #713570
                                                Ron Francis
                                                Default

                                                    @Ron: I did look at Solux halogen. The “run hot” might be a problem. More of a problem is that I would not be using the light for long continuous strethes, but moving it around and often switching it on and off. It’s my understanding that halogen bulbs have short lifetimes under those circumstances. LED, no problem.

                                                    You are correct in that CRI doesn’t tell the whole story, even at a specific color temperature. But it seems that there are some very high CRI LED bulbs (at very high prices) that are getting close to temperature color rendition, and can be acquired as several different color temperatures. I am guessing that this is the wave of the future (10 years) when costs come down.

                                                    @All: My backup plan is to leave final color adjustment (I do glazing) until the rainy season where I live, which will begin within a few weeks. Then, I can work in a well-lit indoor location that has a southern exposure, but the sky will be solid gray all day.

                                                    I don’t know about the longevity of the halogen globes related to frequently turning off and on. I try to paint under natural light as much as I can, but use my globes reasonably often and they have lasted something like 3 years so far. I don’t tend to turn them off and on frequently though.
                                                    They aren’t very expensive though.

                                                    If you are going for LED, then I suggest you try to find one with the flattest spectral curve you can find.
                                                    Ben Sones did some testing here on WC a couple of years ago, and put an LED through a prism to split the light up into a rainbow. It was remarkable to see the dark gaps where there was no light at certain wavelengths.
                                                    I think there may be advancements with LEDs by adding phosphors to make a more complete spectrum, but I haven’t been following the technology and my knowledge is sketchy.
                                                    If you find something that looks good, please post back because I’m also interested.
                                                    Good luck.

                                                    Ron
                                                    www.RonaldFrancis.com

                                                    #713596
                                                    sevan
                                                    Default

                                                        Thank you for the insight. I had no idea there were gaps in the spectrum for these lights. I really only thought of dim, bright, warm and cool. And yes please get back if you find something good.

                                                        #713564
                                                        AnnieA
                                                        Default

                                                            Fluorescent lights have peaks in their spectral curves, and LEDs have gaps, possibly leading to metameric failure. (Colours that look identical under one light but different under another light.)
                                                            If you’re concerned with matching colours while painting, I wouldn’t recommend these no matter what the CRI is. (CRI is not a good indicator in this regard. A candle has a CRI of 100 but would be difficult to mix and match colours under.)

                                                            My recommendation is Solux M-16 halogen globes. (Run on 12 volts).
                                                            They come in different colour temperatures, but I think the best is 4700K.
                                                            I know this is different than average lighting conditions in a home, but lighting would vary considerably. You have to also consider what the artwork will look like throughout the day with natural lighting.

                                                            So I recommend 4700K because it is good for colour mixing and matching.
                                                            They are currently the best you can get to simulate natural light with a flat spectral curve.
                                                            Of course, they run hot unfortunately.

                                                            Hey, Ron, is there a screw-in bulb equivalent (not 12 volts) for the halogen one you’ve recommended?

                                                            If anyone else also knows about this, I’d appreciate hearing…
                                                            It would be such a relief to find something that really worked, but that wouldn’t require a lot of new equipment, break my budget, or send my utility bill through the roof.

                                                            [FONT=Arial]C&C always welcome ©[/I] [/font]
                                                            [FONT=Palatino]
                                                            “Life is a pure flame and we live by an invisible sun within us.” ― Sir Thomas Browne [/size][/font]

                                                            http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/29-Jul-2007/85002-sig-thumbnail_composite_2.jpg]/img]

                                                            #713571
                                                            Ron Francis
                                                            Default

                                                                Hey, Ron, is there a screw-in bulb equivalent (not 12 volts) for the halogen one you’ve recommended?

                                                                If anyone else also knows about this, I’d appreciate hearing…
                                                                It would be such a relief to find something that really worked, but that wouldn’t require a lot of new equipment, break my budget, or send my utility bill through the roof.

                                                                The only ones I know of run at 3500K which is too orange for me.
                                                                I don’t know what voltage you have where you live, but they run on 120 volt, and in Australia where I live, mains power is 240 volt, so I didn’t consider them.
                                                                Rigging up 12 volt lamps was a bit of a pain for me, so I wish they produced the equivalent in 240 volt.
                                                                https://www.solux.net/cgi-bin/tlistore/soluxparbulbs.html

                                                                Ron
                                                                www.RonaldFrancis.com

                                                              Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 37 total)
                                                              • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.