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  #16   Report Bad Post  
Old 07-30-2019, 10:50 AM
IanBertram IanBertram is offline
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Re: Anyone have advice about about website titling?

A search on mystical landscape paintings returns 10m. Add Harold Roth and you still get 1m. Search for mystical landscape acrylic paintings Harold Roth and it comes down to 200k.

This is the way it works. Looking for 'art' or 'American Art' is a waste of time. To find anything you need to refine the search terms to bring the results down to a reasonable number.

That brings up two problems.
  • First you have to try and second guess all the terms that might be used to search for what you are selling. That means two or three word phrases. There are many tools that help to generate those lists available on line. A google search on keyword generator seo will find them- which incidentally is also a good example of how multiple search terms can be used to refine the results.
  • Second, many people don't know how to search or how to refine it. There's nothing you can do about that, just build your site for those who can.

Last edited by IanBertram : 07-30-2019 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 07-30-2019, 12:32 PM
Harold Roth Harold Roth is offline
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Re: Anyone have advice about about website titling?

On "mystical landscape paintings," I am on page two of 9.9 million results (I don't paint in acrylic anymore). Page two is not a great place to be on Google, but it's not nothing with that number of results, especially since a lot of the results are from what is called an authority site (.org, .edu, .gov), which will always push down ordinary sites:

https://www.google.com/search?q=myst...w=1301&bih=574

And that is the result of simply arranging my navigation so that one collection is called that. And I have not even spent that much time looking at SEO for the art site since most of my sales have come from FB.

Last edited by Harold Roth : 07-30-2019 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 07-30-2019, 05:49 PM
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theBongolian theBongolian is online now
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Re: Anyone have advice about about website titling?

getting your search results down to 200,000 out of 10 million is imo not worthwhile. No one is going to go down that far in the search results. 100 would be commendable but sadly also not likely to result in -- results.

Quote:
Harold:On "mystical landscape paintings," I am on page two
That IS worthwhile and "mystical landscape" is not so niche as to be unlikely to be searched. Good work. It would be interesting to see how many others have gotten similar results.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:14 AM
IanBertram IanBertram is offline
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Re: Anyone have advice about about website titling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theBongolian
getting your search results down to 200,000 out of 10 million is imo not worthwhile. No one is going to go down that far in the search results. 100 would be commendable but sadly also not likely to result in -- results.


I didn't suggest that was the end of it, and as Harold shows the length of the list isn't everything anyway, it's where you come in it. That depends on other aspects of SEO related to getting your sites ranking improved with google, which will improve your placement in the list. Harold selling on FB is undoubtedly a factor in that.


Besides, what's the alternative? You either work to be found online or you don't. You seem to suggest it isn't worth the effort. I would argue it isn't worth being on line at all if you don't do that work - except in the limiting case perhaps of a portfolio site.
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Old 07-31-2019, 06:17 PM
Artyczar Artyczar is offline
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Re: Anyone have advice about about website titling?

After some days thinking about it, I think I have a good thing going and looking over how artists are described in general, famous or not, their bios usually begin at where they are from. That makes sense to me, as I feel that has a lot to do with ones approach to the work. It has been for me, Russian/Ukrainian artists, German Expressionists, California Painters, and the like have definite styles to their work.

I was born, raised, and will always have Los Angeles coursing through my blood, and deeply identify as a Los Angeles artist. But I do have Joshua Tree in my keywords.

Being among the first four results on Google for Los Angeles artist and writer is pretty darn excellent and I'm not going to touch my titling SEO right now. So I'll just let it be. I'll probably tweak some keywords, but that's all.

Thank you all for this dialogue!
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Old 07-31-2019, 06:27 PM
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theBongolian theBongolian is online now
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Re: Anyone have advice about about website titling?

Quote:
Ian
I would argue it isn't worth being on line at all if you don't do that work - except in the limiting case perhaps of a portfolio site.
Are you saying those that try to beat the one-in-ten-million odds(actually much worse) are worthy of being on line, but those that think they could better spend there time NOT trying to beat one-in-ten million odds should just log off?
Quote:
Besides, what's the alternative?
Not getting on the first two pages is not the end of the world - ask the hundreds of millions - no make that billions of people who failed and still found happiness.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:25 PM
Harold Roth Harold Roth is offline
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Re: Anyone have advice about about website titling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theBongolian
That IS worthwhile and "mystical landscape" is not so niche as to be unlikely to be searched. Good work. It would be interesting to see how many others have gotten similar results.
Thanks!
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:27 PM
Harold Roth Harold Roth is offline
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Re: Anyone have advice about about website titling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyczar
Being among the first four results on Google for Los Angeles artist and writer is pretty darn excellent and I'm not going to touch my titling SEO right now. So I'll just let it be. I'll probably tweak some keywords, but that's all.
Wow, that's fabulous!
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Old 08-01-2019, 09:10 AM
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Mike L Mike L is offline
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Re: Anyone have advice about about website titling?

SEO (Search Engine Optimization) is truly a black art, especially with the recent additions of AI (Artificial Intelligence - computers thinking for people) into the mix. And it is in constant flux.

Consider using Google's Keyword Planner. A page title is one of the things the search engines look at, and it carries a lot of weight in the algorithms. There are other sites that offer keyword planning on smaller scales.

To start, determine the most important thing about the website - why people would look for it. List the possibilities then choose THE most important one. After that, come up with a short list of different 3 to 4 word phrases that express that most important thought. Work with that, but keep the other ideas as tags to be sprinkled into the body of the page. Also use them all in the planner which will offer suggestions based on the phrases (terms) you supply.
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Old 08-02-2019, 10:53 AM
IanBertram IanBertram is offline
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Re: Anyone have advice about about website titling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theBongolian
Are you saying those that try to beat the one-in-ten-million odds(actually much worse) are worthy of being on line, but those that think they could better spend there time NOT trying to beat one-in-ten million odds should just log off?
No - and I don't see how you could even draw that conclusion. It's nothing to do with me how others spend their time. But this is a forum. It's where experience and opinion get shared. How that is used is for those reading it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theBongolian
Not getting on the first two pages is not the end of the world - ask the hundreds of millions - no make that billions of people who failed and still found happiness.

I'm not talking about happiness - we all find our own route to that. I'm talking about a specific thing and strategies for achieving it. Beyond that its up to you, but you seem determined to read all sorts of things into what is after all nothing more than a discussion about an obscure aspect of software engineering.
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Old 08-02-2019, 11:01 AM
IanBertram IanBertram is offline
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Re: Anyone have advice about about website titling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike L
Consider using Google's Keyword Planner.

...
To start, determine the most important thing about the website - why people would look for it. List the possibilities then choose THE most important one. After that, come up with a short list of different 3 to 4 word phrases that express that most important thought. Work with that, but keep the other ideas as tags to be sprinkled into the body of the page. Also use them all in the planner which will offer suggestions based on the phrases (terms) you supply.


This is good advice. I use the keyword planner a lot when I'm writing descriptions for new items to add to my Etsy shop. I also have some broader but still significant keywords in my Etsy profile and try to use them also in descriptions, keywords etc, in a an attempt to tie my profile to what I sell. How effective that is as a strategy I don't know but can't see it being harmful.
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Old 08-02-2019, 02:55 PM
Artyczar Artyczar is offline
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Re: Anyone have advice about about website titling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike L
SEO (Search Engine Optimization) is truly a black art, especially with the recent additions of AI (Artificial Intelligence - computers thinking for people) into the mix. And it is in constant flux.

Consider using Google's Keyword Planner. A page title is one of the things the search engines look at, and it carries a lot of weight in the algorithms. There are other sites that offer keyword planning on smaller scales.

To start, determine the most important thing about the website - why people would look for it. List the possibilities then choose THE most important one. After that, come up with a short list of different 3 to 4 word phrases that express that most important thought. Work with that, but keep the other ideas as tags to be sprinkled into the body of the page. Also use them all in the planner which will offer suggestions based on the phrases (terms) you supply.

Hey, thanks for this. I don't think I knew about the keyword planner, and I thought I knew a lot about SEO and all that Google had to offer--shows me what I know! Ha. I know the rules about how to do the title, description, keywords/phrases (one-word and longtail, etc.), but didn't "know it all."

But I know how right you are about the ever ebb and flow about keeping up with how Google spits out their results. It is an art, a "black art," as you say. One has to constantly keep up with the strategy of it all. My boyfriend is always going to the conventions and hearing "experts" speak from Google and the various other companies about SEO and usually comes back with great info so that we can keep ahead of the game, but no one can ever really be ahead of it and know for sure.

The best thing to do is to be as relevant as possible, make sure you abide by Google's rules, write in what your site is really about, and include the correct content that relates to what your site IS. That means titling your site and images correctly (and strategically), describing what is on the page, and titling your URLs clearly. That's really the best you can do. The more specific you get, the better. That would be my advice and the advice I was hoping to get more input about.

Thank you for yours.

And thank you to all that are contributing to this thread!
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Old 08-02-2019, 03:01 PM
Artyczar Artyczar is offline
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Re: Anyone have advice about about website titling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Roth
Wow, that's fabulous!

I know, right?

I think when my book came out in April is when I changed it, and I also think the description on my home page has helped a great deal because I have a description there that I am both a visual artist and a writer from Los Angeles. Because I have a partial bio on the actual page, that helps. I think!

Plus, all that meta data is in the headers on every page with the navigation (I wrote the site in php using Bootstrap). It desperately needs updates, but now I'm a little afraid to touch it. It's also a monster of a mess because it runs on a giant database.
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