Home Forums Explore Subjects Plein Air Designing My Own Plein Air Box

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 25 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #991498
    briantmeyer
    Default

        I am learning carpentry and watercolors at the same time, kind of see both going hand in hand. My goal with this particular design is an understanding I have no idea what I want or how I want this to work, but want some thing for which it’s easy for me to redesign as needed and just swap out a module instead of starting over entirely.

        Yes I can just buy this stuff, or sidestep in some other manner probably better or lighter so I can paint instead of do carpentry, but please just assume that the focus is on making a box and not whether I should be making a box to begin with. Love to see what others are doing, even in boxes you can buy, but the hope is to think thru this design. This is also mostly going on in my mind, these are just ideas, with prototypes I might be able to use, or perhaps others use, and ideally this results in some brand new ideas which solve the issues of painting in the field.

        I am going to use this for watercolor mainly. I am not that concerned about weight, don’t think that the wood involved is going to weigh that much. Mostly that means I need water, palette, place to hold brushes, and for it to attach to an easel or tripod. Attached is an initial plan for it, but note that the idea is that everything is modular, so if I decide I want to use it for pastels, the palette drawer would be removed and a pastel chalk holding tray would slide in as a new drawer.

        First design decision for the above image is that of over all size, which is pretty arbitrary ( most of this is ). I like the idea of a compact french easel, but from what I’ve seen most are very narrow width wise and pretty deep, and prefer it to have a wider working area. Thus it’s designed to be a 6.5 inches tall, 2 feet wide, and 1 foot deep. This is the core of the design but the size is arbitrary. I probably could make it 10×18 by making the drawer a foot wide ( arbitrary ), and putting the water bottles in a row, and removing the space behind the drawers, but I prefer having them side by side in front ( water is most important ) and 15 inches will let me fit 12 tubes of paint across the drawer. Also the width of 24″ means that if I do a vertical support for a canvas or other contraption it cannot be longer than about 22″, and making a foot by two feet seems simple to me.

        Modular Top: My second design decision is that the ideas of pochade box, french easel, or supply box, basically how it holds the picture are not something I want to be held hostage to. So the entire top portion of the box will slide in and out, secured with a screw so it’s secure. Then I can make different tops. For water color I don’t need a canvas carrier, but this has about 2.5 inches of space above the board which can be used for both an easel and wet canvas holder. In essence each module is another idea on how to make an effective “desk”.

        Modular Bottom: Third I want to make a bottom with legs like a french easel eventually, but don’t want to develop this now, so the bottom is going to be similar in how it works and just be a flat piece that slides in and out. Initially I’ll attach a tripod mount here so it’s usable right away.

        Modular Drawers: For these my goal is to just do a pair of drawers, one able to accept things about a half inch in height – like a palette or trays. The second deeper and able to hold large brushes, tubes of paint, etc. I can either do all wood which slides in and out, but have been thinking metal guides would be nice. ( and since they are modules this means I’d make 6 or 8 drawers and decide when I go somewhere which ones to use, once not in use could slide into my studios desk )

        Large Supply Section: Basically an area for large items, up to 5 inches tall like my water jars with clean and dirty water, or perhaps keep a sandwich and a drink holder here. This by design would be accessed thru the modular top above.

        Flyout Lid: Friction hinges allow any angle desired and can be just a shelf when open. These close to cover the box and also whatever is the top module. I am thinking that the front can actually extend over the drawers thus keeping them closed when in transport. These are also modular, in that they will have screw holes to which I can attach contraptions – like a brush holder or some sort of supply holder so this space is not wasted. Note that the design of the modular top ( like the water bottles taking up that space above ) can interfere with being able to have room for anything to attach.

        Easel attachment hooks: Let this be attached to an easel via hooks on the back ( based on idea from indraneel here on wet canvas, looks very simple and light enough so it can just be a defacto part of the design )

        Just thinking of where I can take this, and the first thing i think of are those lights you see on TV which you slap into a closet. If I get a piece of frosted white acrylic for the modular top, and put those lights in the drawer, I can make it work as a light box on the left side. ( can’t see the need for this in the field, but might be useful at home, I can put more effort in and make something out of fluorescent bulbs that operates off of 9 volt batteries )

        The basic idea though is to make the basic and simple box a platform upon which other things can be attached, ideally with standard sizes so the parts can be used elsewhere. Initially it is just a supply box, but its also extendable into a full easel. The hard parts are the need for routing grooves, and precise drilling of the holes for the hinges and drawers. The modular top and bottom are simply boards of a set size which have a lip and pieces that screws in to keep them in place instead of using glue.

        #1197900
        OK
        Default

            You’re going about this the right way thinking things through with drawings first. Have you seen the setups that James Gurney uses for Plein Air Painting in watercolour?
            When I first started I used a french easel to get to know what I would need when out painting in the field, then I thought through and made various designs for a pochade. It probably took six months to finalise the design and two days to make the Pochade Box. I haven’t made another and it’s now been in use for three years. My main criterion was for the box to be small and light weight so the whole rig fits in a medium sized rucksack and I can easily hike with it, I knew that if the rucksack was to heavy I would be reluctant to walk to the remote areas.

            :wave: Dave

            “What peaches and what penumbras! Whole families shopping at night! Aisles full of husbands! Wives in the avocados, babies in the tomatoes!—and you, Garcia Lorca, what were you doing down by the watermelons?”
            — Allen Ginsberg
            Are you ready for a Journey?
            PS Critiques always welcome but no plaudits or emoting, please don’t press the like button.

            #1197903
            briantmeyer
            Default

                Thank you, I like how you slide the boards for painting into the lid. Also like how the latch secures the palette, that might solve the problem of keeping the drawers closed in a simpler manner, and still being able to use it when it’s closed.

                One of my concerns is that I want to work bigger than my box, so thinking the “board” just won’t be part of this, or at most hang on the closed box somehow, or leave an opening in the top for it to slide into. Lot of this is deciding what I don’t want to do, editing things down to just what I need. One of the reasons I want the top to be modular so I can slide it out as I have better ideas, really thinking I just need a attachment to the bottom of the board and almost use the board itself as my easel.

                I am spending a lot of time looking at various pochade boxes and easels online, or in the threads here, never seen a setup with a camera before, i think the key is to have it customized to the artist. Each one gives me ideas as to what I can add or remove, I am starting to see it as just palette, brushes, desk, perhaps tubes of paint, water, and other junk.

                This artists blog posting was interesting http://powersfineart.com/my-painting-equipment-part-i/ as it described many of the issues relevant to watercolorists and has links to a lot of interesting easels. Kind of don’t see either pochade or french easel as ideal since you should be able to pivot your watercolors flat, or quickly adjust the angle to affect the waters flow on the page, and his camera tripod easel hooked up to a board seems close to ideal in theory. ( I am actually just using a regular wood easel so just getting used to my work surface being vertical, this box should hook onto either setup )

                #1197904
                briantmeyer
                Default

                    Have to make notes of “cool” setups – this was just posted in the other thread showing all the plein air setups by indianagreg showing how Vinita Pappas uses velcro. Like it for just about everything except for the water holder, and the fact it has to be assembled each time. However it’s probably the most minimal setup I’ve seen. It captures the ability to easily move the substrate as desired to any angle.

                    Also need to link to a post by Yorky about a russian box which is just ingenious https://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19889984&postcount=579

                    I am thinking I might ( still tentative ) be able to put in basically a pole coming out of the supply box, then attach a slik ball head, this one holds 4.5 pounds. Then I can use a setup with a simple mount and velcro like above, or a flex easel

                    #1197901
                    OK
                    Default

                        Most of the pochade’s I’ve seen are intended for oil painting so as a watercolourist you’re going to have to come up with some different solutions, that’s why the design proses you are going through is so important. The more you can imagine how you will use it and work things out through your drawings the more successful it will be. Looking forward to see what you come up with.
                        Here is another blog by Jim Serrett, Pochade Box Paintings[/URL], he’s a good guy and has free plans and lots of discussions about plein air painting, though the main focus is on oil painting.

                        :wave: Dave.

                        “What peaches and what penumbras! Whole families shopping at night! Aisles full of husbands! Wives in the avocados, babies in the tomatoes!—and you, Garcia Lorca, what were you doing down by the watermelons?”
                        — Allen Ginsberg
                        Are you ready for a Journey?
                        PS Critiques always welcome but no plaudits or emoting, please don’t press the like button.

                        #1197905
                        briantmeyer
                        Default

                            This is another idea, trying to brain storm here a bit, and not thinking this is the path I am going to take, but this looks like it would be very light. Not sure I want to work with fabric.

                            This combines the Russian easel idea, with the Velcro that Vinitas Pappas uses. Imagine that it’s her board, but it attaches to this tripod.

                            The idea I had is to use fabric so it’s lighter, and instead of a tripod, use a unipod ( single leg tripod ) and mount it to a plate that attaches to the ground, and uses a rock bag type piece of canvas to connect it to the seat. The seat is a simple folding stool – less complex than the russian which looks amazing, but it’s the same idea.

                            The “rock bag” would hold every thing when it folds up, and probably would have to have compartments and flaps to hold the various supplies. Not sure how it would fit, but I made a paper mock up and the wooden parts collapse to almost nothing, and you’d have to screw in the unipod.

                            It would use a person sitting as part of the support, so stepping back and looking would not be possible unless the rock bag is pretty heavy.

                            #1197898
                            Ruth Brigitte
                            Default

                                I didn’t read all, but I found the reference for Jim Serrett’s pochade box. After trying a french easel and a cigar box from ebay, I decided to follow jim’s instructions and have used that box for the last 4-5 years. Never failed me, easy to carry around, and it literally sets up in 30 seconds. So far I have made about 10 pochade boxes from his design for other artists who saw the ease and light weight of this box.
                                The main thing to me is, how are you mixing your paints (most boxes are so deep to carry the tubes in, but then you have to “reach in” to mix which is cumbersome). The flatter the box and mixing area, the better, I have found. Because you end up carrying a bag with you anyway, no need to have the tubes INSIDE the box….
                                My 2 cents.
                                Ruth

                                #1197899
                                Ruth Brigitte
                                Default

                                    Also, Jim’s box design is about 10″x12″, but I have recently painted a 16″x20″ board on it and it worked fine.
                                    Ruth

                                    #1197906
                                    briantmeyer
                                    Default

                                        Yes i have read the various threads on the pochade boxes, even a few based on them, they are a good idea and I am still using that as my starting point. My hope though is to tailor it to what I need, which is not oils. I can say that they just are not set up in an ideal manner for water color, perhaps with friction hinges ( so you can make the paper horizontal ) and if they are not deep – I almost prefer the hinge to be on the front of the box and not on the back.

                                        If you look at Vinitas Pappas, and her setup which I linked to, that is aimed at the problems of watercolorists. My hope is to not abandon the idea of a box, and make something that is as elegant as her setup but also more modular. But I am a designer myself, and I like to tackle problems of design like this, so I think I can come up with something else as good eventually, but tailored to how I am going to work. My level of complexity is limited only by what I think i can make, so it’s a concern but not the most important one.

                                          [*]Has to be able to adjust paper surface incline easily and constantly – friction hinges, but not as good as a ball joint.
                                          [*]Often working on a board which has paper attached by being wet or with clips, will usually be much larger than the box – don’t really need the lid for support.
                                          [*]Must be able to handle a canvas ( stretched paper over wooden square dowels ) – this is more in line with what pochade boxes are aimed at. Thinking I can clamp at the bottom and not have to do a support at the top.
                                          [*]Close to working surface, reaching over is bad – prefer french easels here
                                          [*]Dual sources of water, wide opening to fit a 3″ brush or bigger is better.
                                          [*]Water water water – spray bottle and access to more water. Also sponges and rags, sham wow, portable fan, anything to control water and how wet or dry the surface is.
                                          [*]Palette in center and on the front – like to have tubes as I go so i just have as much paint on the palette as I need to use, can either setup cakes ( don’t want to do that ) or I need the tubes in specific spots so they I am not looking thru them constantly. Watercolor tubes are pretty small compared to other mediums, and a small drop of paint goes a long way. A soaking wet palette needs to either dry or be contained, or just left level, ideally a cover can keep each section so it does not drip into the next section, but prefer it to be able to dry out between usage.
                                          [*]Brushes inclined down while wet – not a big deal but seems easy to make work
                                          [*]Self contained, and I want to use mostly the same setup at home in the studio. I consider painting at home as practicing for when i go out into the field.
                                          [*]Fold it open, start working, close it up, ready to walk away, speed of setup and teardown is critical.

                                        ( My design now has the palette flush with the top, that was a very early design decision to solve the problem I noticed that the palette is not front and center, also an issue I see with the water hanging far under the easel forcing the artist to reach a long way, don’t like that. The depth is deeper than I wanted, but then the height of my current water sources dictated that – notice my focus is on water. )

                                        #1197894

                                        I made a couple of watercolour boxes a few years ago for storage and table use. They could be adapted for tripod fitting. I used standard hardwood mouldings and plywood.

                                        Doug


                                        We must leave our mark on this world

                                        #1197907
                                        briantmeyer
                                        Default

                                            Been thinking this thru quite a bit. I keep coming back to this design, which I don’t think is something I’ve seen anyone do so far. Going to keep thinking this back and forth, but it seems like my mind is settling on this design.

                                            The idea is that the ideal is the pivoting tripod head, just like a camera, to support the canvas, but instead of just using a tripod, it uses a short foot long pole coming out of a pochade type box. This can be used as is on a lap or a desk, or it could have it’s own tripod attachment or legs. It attacks the problem of french easels of having storage behind the canvas by making the canvas go above the base, and it also solves the problem of being too far back by mounting in the center or near the front instead of the back.

                                            This is solely intended to show the structure in a simple manner, the shelf can be more complicated in shape, even a box – I was thinking the thicker box like in my initial post, and I’d assume there would be a lid/box that opens so all the parts can go inside, but it can be simply a shelf like this which would probably make it light as possible and still do everything.

                                            This is in effect almost the same result as a shelf/box that hangs on the tripod via hooks, in concept some of my thinking is that I can put things in between the male screw and the female attachment, but the advantage in my mind here is that this can be placed directly on the ground or on a desk, and then I have a fully pivoting drawing surface, and I can still put a box/shelf on the tripod if desired.

                                            #1197908
                                            briantmeyer
                                            Default

                                                Ok getting more clarity in what I think will work for me, the other thread where people are listing what they are using is fantastic ( I feel I’d be off topic there since I don’t have a good setup yet ). Starting to figure out how to do a rough mockup. I am only using minimal tools ( miter saw, cordless circular saw, chisel, glue and clamps ) so my goal is to make it work with what I have, with a goal of getting a router/table saw/jigs which will enable me to make much more precise cuts and use much thinner and harder wood which should make the final product a lot lighter.

                                                The first thing I noticed as I said before I really like ball and pivot tripod attachment. It’s a great idea for watercolor as demonstrated by Vinita Pappas even though that is too much arranging things before you start painting. To me this means I am a tripod guy, so that means what I am making is either a supply box / palette that hooks on the tripod, or the other idea of it having it’s own tripod head.

                                                Now reading that other thread, many are using the Coulter Plein Air System. Note that this is very similar to my original idea ( the lid flips open to provide shelves to the left and right instead of being a canvas support, not sure the term to describe a lid that opens from the center like this. ) but it looks a lot more refined for targeting oil painters, but it looks like a very stable platform when attached to the easel. This is very close to what I am looking for, and I think as I refine things my final result is going to be very close to this. The panel holder is a great design. Overall this really seems the ideal solution for those who use tripods.

                                                I then started looking at palettes and was looking at the crafttech brand of supplies which has glass for oils, watercolor palettes which seem nice, and also a padded tray for holding pastels ( I like nu pastels as well ) Then i looked at their Craftech Sienna Studio Palette[/url] which seems exactly what I am looking for, a palette which opens to have brush holders / shelf on the left and right, palette area on the very top, and a supply drawer, the only thing it lacks is a built in way to attach to the easel the way the coulter system does, and a place specifically for water on the shelf itself and not hanging below.

                                                So I am thinking my current project will be to do a simple supply box similar to the coulter system, but merged Craftech Sienna Studio Palette which is a very similar design to begin with. The entire top surface is intended as a work area, to which I am thinking I am going to attach velcro so I can just stick a palette to the top and easily remove it. ( i really like velcro ) I also am going to have water on the top front. Just like the sienna I want to have an actual drawer to hold supplies/brushes/whatever.

                                                I just finished making the two wooden hooks for the back, which will be set up so they fit into groves on the back of the box. Thinking I can set the two hooks so they are connected to a mini bungy cord to provide tension, but also looking at doing screw down clamps so I can tighten these if I desire. Going to pillage hardware from other artist boxes. I just got a 4×2 sheet of quarter inch hardwood plywood, and some furring strips ( they are a dollar each with lots of knots but good enough to make a prototype ) Kind of want to get some experience making the hooks and also test them myself to just understand how well they work.

                                                #1197909
                                                briantmeyer
                                                Default

                                                    This is for all intents a rough and unfinished prototype. This is made out of furring strips ( 3 of them, which are heavily knotted 1.5″x.5″x8′ cheap lumber which run $1 each ) and a piece of plywood ( $6 for a 4’x2′ sheet ). The hardware came off of another box. I glued the furring strips to make a 3 inch wide piece. The hinges were $3 for a pair ( probably going to reuse those for the next version )

                                                    The pieces were for the most part warped, so the lid does not line up very well, but by getting better pieces ( for example 1/8″ poplar boards ) and I adjusted the sizes so they are simpler. I am not exactly a expert carpenter, so a lot of this is just figuring out how to do things. Not even trying to do things modular yet, just get a feel for the size and weight, overall this seems both functional and stable as it’s attached.

                                                    The hooks on the back I made with a mitre saw, very carefully dropping the blade on two small blocks which I had clamped together. I then carefully made a quarter inch slot down the middle of the hook in which I glued a piece of board to fit into a notch on the back of the box. I had a lot of trouble doing those notches in the back of the box these fit into, actually had to redo it twice before I made a fence to control the speedsaw which I was using. The hooks are adjustable to the desired width by tightening the screws, going to get some screws I can hand tighten later.

                                                    The brush holder on the left I am pretty happy with, and very simple. I setup a strip of wood ( another furring strip ) and took all my drill bits and drilled sequentially example holes just so I could determine which bit to use. Then I took my brushes and placed them inside the holes to size them, and once I knew the correct sizes I just drilled holes in a board. When i carry it ( it’s opposite the handle ) the brushes are upright. To hold them right it seems I need a deep hole, if it’s just in a thin piece they tend to rattle around.

                                                    The center portion is intended to be drawers with a shelf on top. Kind of thinking I can set this up on whatever table I am sitting at, and set the canvas/paper in the center or just on top. Not sure on the sizing, it seems very big, and thinking I can make it less deep and not as tall – perhaps even 8″ by 20″ instead of 12″ by 24″ for the final one, but then I am still editing what I bring on plein air trips. If I can find shorter water jars at the grocery store ( I only use a inch of water as it is ), I can make the whole thing a lot shorter.

                                                    #1197895

                                                    Prototyping is a good way to perfect your ideas.

                                                    Doug


                                                    We must leave our mark on this world

                                                    #1197910
                                                    briantmeyer
                                                    Default

                                                        Current revision of prototype.

                                                        This is far too heavy, but is really helping me learning the tasks of carpentry. Quite a bit of the issues are using cordless power tools and not being able to get perfectly square cuts on larger pieces, so I’ve opted to use sizes as is of the furring strips. I have a mitre saw which does smaller pieces. This does go on the easel but it’s obviously at the limits of what is reasonable. Will probably do very controlled testing on an easel, but treat this more as a table top supply box, perhaps fitting something on top to act as a desk – mainly at home.

                                                        One of the things I wanted was a drawer with slots for my tubes of paint and other similar supplies. I actually am finding this drawer is more key to everything and I could have just added brushes and water to this and been very complete.

                                                        An issues I ran into, is the drawer is meant to be lifted sideways as the handle is on the far right of the box, so all the supplies tumble to one side of the drawer when I want them to stay in position. I was trying to solve this and came up with a board to fit over the paints themselves, which led to something I think will end up being used by me for years, as I realized this seems like a palette. ( gotta love serendipity ) This effectively negates the need for two drawers.

                                                        This palette has spaces to hold a smaller jar of water, holes for brushes, a cheapy type plastic palette tray, and I made it so it has notches to hold watercolor cakes ( thank you again Harold ). I don’t even really use cakes but am thinking of getting more pans and focusing on that. I am thinking this is actually my entire studio in my hand and all I need except for the brushes. To an extent this accident is probably what I build the next prototype around.

                                                        I really like the brush holder ( it slides out and is going to live on my desk regardless ), the arrangement of the water on the right, a flat area on top which has velcro and can be used as a work area, and the drawer seems core. There seems like a lot of unused space though around these things which can be reduced.

                                                        My task now is twofold.

                                                        One I need to find good wood to construct a new version, using hardwood sold as hobby boards ( they have some oak that seems very strong sold as 4 foot long boards, all quarter inch thick, in sizes ranging from 1.5 to 4 inches so I don’t have to cut down long lengths. Just a bit on the pricey side after I did all this for about $10 including glue, and single boards are $8-10 ). I also want to get some better hardboard plywood, I am using material designed for drawers. This should by itself decrease the weight by half.

                                                        Second I need to edit this design so it’s a third to half as big. I am thinking I can find shorter water jars, put the squeeze bottles perhaps in the lid, and make the height of the bottom about 2 inches, and the top 2 inches thick, perhaps rethinking the brush holder so it’s thinner and using less wood. I might even just do an alternate so it just is more of a carrier for the palette and a few brushes and water for when I want to be really light. Also think I can make it not as deep.

                                                        Overall I am happy with it’s overall shape, and will just use it to paint for a while and get a better feeling for what it’s practical problems are besides weight.

                                                        This feels a lot like writing poetry, you want to be more concise, but you don’t want to remove that extra word because it’s important to the meaning until eventually you figure out how to say the same thing in a simpler way.

                                                      Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 25 total)
                                                      • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.