Hello. I have both shapes and love them both. The dagger is great for detail and getting a variety of brush marks, crisp edges and leaf/grass/tree shapes for landscape. A dagger is kind of like a rigger in that it can make long, fine lines, but also like an angled flat if you use it on the side. I love mine! Cat’s tongue or filbert is like a round and flat in one. You can use it for big washes (depending on the size) and for tiny details. It will also do a lot of unique shapes depending on if you use it flat (pressing the belly on the paper) or on the side, using the edge, or on the tip. I don’t know whether you want sable, synthetic or squirrel for either or both, but there are many good options in the different fibers. For a synthetic dagger, I am thrilled with the Cosmotop Spin. For sable, I like the Rosemary sable blends and they are not expensive. For filbert/cat’s tongue, the Isabey squirrel oval wash is great, but I think you can get the same style/size brush from Rosemary, Jackson’s (house brand) or ProArte for about half the price. (I did not know that when I got mine). I have also tried DaVinci Casaneo oval/cat’s tongue in the 1/2 size and it’s good, too. Many many options out there… all of them are good.

Daggers are sign painting brushes, traditionally made with squirrel. Also they are pin striping brushes.

Really long, hard to control, but expressive. It’s like a long round which someone cut the tip off at a diagonal giving it a dagger shape.

Think of it as a very thick rigger, just like the squirrel mop is a thick round.

I’d suggest Neptune. Rosemary and company has a travel/pocket brush made out of synthetic in this format. You can also look at sign supply companies for this pin striping brushes ( for example the mack brush here is nice https://www.mclogan.com/shop/mack-series-squirrel-hair-sword-stripers-p-11-c-294_301_10_11.html )

The cats toungue is a cross between a mop and a filbert, more control as it’s shorter, more for doing washes and the like, but it still has a bit of a point. Probably like a quill with more control, but have not used one yet.

Janinep7,

Thanks for the information. I didn’t think about synthetic or natural. I would be interested in the synthetic brands. Thank you.

Shirley2:wave:

Escoda Versatil also comes in a Filbert, as does the Cosmotop Spin. I have Versatil rounds, so think that would be a good material for a synthetic filbert. The Spin daggers are really good. I’m sure the filbert/ovals are as well.

Edited

Hi Shirley. I have never used a cat’s tongue, but I was surprised by how much I like my daggers. I have a Dynasty Black Gold, which is stiff and a Simmons Expression, which is softer and holds more. Both were pretty inexpensive. I use a 3/8″ Simmons for smallish paintings and it’s especially nice for little ATC-sizes, but I like a big brush, compared to my paper. The great thing about the dagger is how versatile it is. The angled side lays down nice big washes, along with other effects one gets from a flat and the point is like a rigger, as others have mentioned.

Noelle

The problem is that a filbert is a flat with rounded corners, perfect for oils, but not a big advantage on watercolors. An actual flat gives your marks a distinctive shape, which contrasts with the marks made by the rounder brushers.
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An oil painting filbert will not form a point, at least the Grumbacher Golden Edge synthetic I have for acrylics, so yes, I see what you mean re: rounded corners. Good for softer effects with oil/acrylics. Not really as useful for watercolors, but not “a problem” either.

However a cat’s tongue/oval/filbert designed for watercolors or gouache – a brush shape that goes by many names is very versatile. If you know what to do with it, it gives you way more shapes/mark making possibilities than a straight edged flat.

There are lots of watercolorists who live by these: John Hoar is the one that comes to mind immediately. He uses only a filbert xl plus a dagger. Svetlana Orinko is another. Svetlana paints a lot of flowers, birds, etc. John Hoar paints landscapes, buildings, marinescapes sometimes still lifes. Their subjects are worlds apart, techniques as well, yet they use the same type of brushes!

Some video demos:

[url]https://www.colourinyourlife.com.au/tv-show-ep/svetlana-orinko/[/url]

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFLfUVrcSH0[/url]

[QUOTE=briantmeyer]
The daggers do have a flatter ferrule on some versions, some being much like angled flats, but when it’s 2″ long, that flatness does not seem very flat, nor does the brush act like a flat as it’s cut at a very steep angle so you can only use one corner of it. An angular flat is at 45 degrees, while the dagger can be at 70-80 degrees and has a very short ferrule. The term dagger or sword liner is far more appropriate, and it uses that area you are describing as a belly.

Rather it’s acts like a rigger with a really big belly, often using squirrel, so it’s really got some ability to move fluid and do long lines. It’s kind of like one of those long pool toy tubes. But then it’s designed for sign painting, really similar to how some brushes are made for doing ships rigging.

( and though many use riggers daggers slowly with precision, you can actually sweep and slash with them using your entire arm, it takes practice and confidence, bravura, but you get a much finer stroke that way, there are examples of Zbukvic doing this in some of his videos. )

Swords, daggers, liners, whatever they are called come in many sizes, shapes, materials and stiffnesses. Some are quite wide and will behave like just an angled flat with more pizzazz.

Example:
https://www.amazon.com/Vinci-Watercolor-CosmoTop-Needle-Sharp-Synthetic/dp/B006D9QIR6/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1509284926&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=spin%2Bslanted%2Bliner%2Bbrush&th=1

The traditional sign painting brush (usually squirrel, called a striper dagger) you are referring to is a wild ride that is pretty much impossible to control, which is the main reason you would use it, because you want the flowing spontaneity of marks.

Like this one:

https://www.jacksonsart.com/da-vinci-kazan-squirrel-hair-dagger-striper-size-1

It really all depends on the specific brush. I don’t think it’s possible to generalize quite as much as you’d like to, that filberts aren’t good for watercolor or don’t make as interesting a marks as flats, or that daggers are not good for X or are impossible to control. You find it that way, others do not. And as always, it depends on the person, the purpose, the painting, etc.

Here are some more video demos of Fiona Peart, UK watercolorist, using her own line of brushes in some of the different shapes we’ve been talking about:

http://www.fionapeart.com/Information/using-the-Golden-Dagger-brush.aspx

http://www.fionapeart.com/Information/using-the-Golden-Sword-brush.aspx

http://www.fionapeart.com/Information/using-the-Emporer-EX-large.aspx

http://www.fionapeart.com/Information/using-the-Half-Inch-Gilbert.aspx

Since a picture is worth a thousand words, these videos will probably be more helpful to the OP in making her decision about these brushes than anything we could type as a reply. :0)