Home Forums Now I’ve seen it all… this can’t be right

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  • #480275
    Batman55
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        Check this out:

        https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/14/europe/university-graduate-child-genius-scli-intl/index.html

        I’ve known of child prodigies in music, but I’ve never heard of anything like this. If we take the article at face value, you are essentially telling me to believe a kid that would be in *third grade in the US system* has not merely entered college aged 8, but he finished his degree in Electrical Engineering *one year later* at the age of 9.

        The point I’m making is, quite frankly, something is not right about this. If you’re going with “this could only be innate” then it does not look like “human development” as we know it. It appears to branch off into another category, perhaps even a new branch of human being, at that level. Every notion of how the youthful brain develops, it’s gone missing here.

        That said, my aim is not to judge this kid negatively, but I will admit to all such articles leading to envy and self-loathing by comparison. Maybe I should stop reading the news? I’m one of those perennial “ne’er-do-wells,” I’m just upfront about it, unlike others. Yes, I am a complete lemon. I had trouble in Math in grade school, and was a struggling student (in all subjects) by 10th grade of high school. Forget college, haha. Learning difficulties and social difficulties–all of those things landed on my plate, leading to utter maladaptation. “Lack of intelligence” is just what I am.

        My final point is this, I’m often told “do not believe everything you read.” In this case, I should hope so. There has to be a big catch here, right? It’s known that the News Media will exaggerate to help sell a story. And even if the claims are factual, I propose that something important is left out. Even things like an abnormal childhood, with parents whose entire aim was to encourage and even “push” this kid into constant intellectual pursuit, could be at play. Anyone?

        #907767
        musket
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            The kid is a math prodigy (he has to be, to get anywhere in electrical engineering). If you’ve got the math, and are otherwise intelligent, you’ve got a major head start.

            Here are some famous ones–

            Blaise Pascal (1623–1662) was a French mathematician, physicist, and religious philosopher who wrote a treatise on vibrating bodies at the age of nine; he wrote his first proof, on a wall with a piece of coal, at the age of 11 years, and a theorem by the age of 16 years. He is famous for Pascal’s theorem and many other contributions in mathematics, philosophy, and physics.

            Srinivasa Ramanujan (1887–1920), was an Indian mathematician and autodidact who, with almost no formal training in pure mathematics, learned college-level mathematics by age 11, and generated his own theorems in number theory and Bernoulli numbers by age 13 (including independently re-discovering Euler’s identity).

            William James Sidis (1898–1944), was an American child prodigy with exceptional mathematical and linguistic skills. He is notable for his 1920 book The Animate and the Inanimate, in which he postulates the existence of dark matter, entropy and the origin of life in the context of thermodynamics. Sidis was raised in a particular manner by his father, psychologist Boris Sidis, who wished his son to be gifted. Sidis first became famous for his precocity and later for his eccentricity and withdrawal from public life. Eventually, he avoided mathematics altogether, writing on other subjects under a number of pseudonyms. He entered Harvard at age 11 and, as an adult, was claimed to have an extremely high IQ, and to be conversant in about 25 languages and dialects. Some of these claims have not been verifiable, but many of his contemporaries, including Norbert Wiener, Daniel Frost Comstock and William James, supported the assertion that his intelligence was very high.

            #907779

            We had a child at Michigan Tech about 1966/67. I don’t know what his degree course was, but I saw him in Math, Physics, and EE classes. He looked to be about 10 years old.

            It is only on a basis of knowledge that we can become free to compose naturally. -- Bernard Dunstan
            blog.jlk.net

            #907772
            Snow_tabby
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                Great story.
                There have been many child prodigies over the years. Yes all of them are geniuses but totally dumb as to how to survive/live in the human world. Many times they have no clue. Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory show is a great but loose depiction. 🤓

                #907768
                musket
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                    Not all of them, by any means, are dumb in that sense. It’s a stereotype.

                    Richard Feynman, for one, quoted in my signature tag, was a child math prodigy. He got along in the human world just fine, as anyone who knows anything about his life knows.

                    #907771
                    stlukesguild
                    Default

                        Picasso, Mozart, and Mendelssohn all did quite well.

                        Saintlukesguild-http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/
                        "Beauty is truth, truth beauty—that is all ye know on earth and all ye need to know." - John Keats
                        "Modern art is what happens when painters stop looking at girls and persuade themselves that they have a better idea."- John Ciardi

                        #907774
                        brianvds
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                            Maybe I should stop reading the news?

                            Bingo. :-)

                            So. He’s an electrical engineer at nine. And what do you call a guy who scrapes through his electrical engineering studies at 25? Answer: An electrical engineer.

                            One should not make too much of child prodigies. Some burn out completely. Most go on to have successful but relatively unremarkable careers.

                            Of course, here and there you get ones, like those others mentioned in this thread, who really are just way better at what they do than any of us could ever hope to be. It is what it is – the universe is not required to conform to our notions of fairness.

                            __________________________
                            http://brianvds.blogspot.co.za/

                            #907782
                            Batman55
                            Default

                                Great story.

                                Not so much a great story when you’re someone like me, with no natural aptitude for anything.

                                I think there’s a great deal of envy around for polymathic individuals or prodigies, it’s just something few will admit. I’m the exception there, as you can see

                                #907783
                                Batman55
                                Default

                                    Bingo. :-)

                                    So. He’s an electrical engineer at nine. And what do you call a guy who scrapes through his electrical engineering studies at 25? Answer: An electrical engineer.
                                    [/quote]
                                    Well, I could attempt to breakdown the kind of massive advantage I believe folks like this kid have. Of course, I don’t know how it looks from their shoes. But as an envious person, what I’m seeing is a gargantuan head start on the “life trajectory” or the gold standard of development in capitalist/meritocratic societies.

                                    It turns out “achievement” as well as “intelligence” are a currency used for all manner of things; surely I don’t have to spell out what I’m seeing here, and the reasons for my envy.

                                    But at least here in the States, for instance, a man who could write he graduated from an Ivy League university on his dating profile… automatically has a massive advantage over everyone else, there’s no question, and this has been proven in studies. Think about what this kid’s credentials are going to look like, the kind of status he will have, etc.

                                    If you’re not seeing what I’m seeing, and you’re not bitter, then I don’t know what to say. Consider that I never had ability in [I]anything.[/I] Pray tell, where is the accolades, the allotment of “social value based on achievement” for those of us with virtually no aptitude? Riddle me that.
                                    [QUOTE=brianvds]
                                    Of course, here and there you get ones, like those others mentioned in this thread, who really are just way better at what they do than any of us could ever hope to be. It is what it is – the universe is not required to conform to our notions of fairness.

                                    Surely one possible silver-lining you could offer would be something like this:

                                    “Here and there you get ones, who start with little aptitude in anything, they’re slow learners who effectively prove, through their actions, that they’re just hapless. And then they believe that to be predictive of their entire life. So they amble along and fulfill the prophecy, underachieving in extreme ways, until eventually they find something to grab onto, let’s say art, and through pushing themselves to discard the negative beliefs and comparisons, achieve competence in later life.”

                                    So, am I right, or…?

                                    #907773
                                    Snow_tabby
                                    Default

                                        There’s always a creative way to getting around life’s shortcomings. Just have to draw it out and find the right timing. So long as I’m alive, I guess I will keep on trying and to work on finding success. Its very much like my recent activity. I had to take many selfies in the park to even get one or two photos of my self that were even adequate to be used as a profile pic to be used at various online ports.

                                        For those that feel inadequate in this life, just continue to work with life’s dirt and grow something.

                                        Some people are born with a silver platter of life and others are born with dirt. Those with silver platters later grow up to serve other people while the ones with dirt learn to grow their own success. 😊🤗

                                        #907775
                                        brianvds
                                        Default

                                            Well, I could attempt to breakdown the kind of massive advantage I believe folks like this kid have. Of course, I don’t know how it looks from their shoes. But as an envious person, what I’m seeing is a gargantuan head start on the “life trajectory” or the gold standard of development in capitalist/meritocratic societies.[/quote]

                                            Oh, there’s no doubt that kids like these have an inbuilt advantage. Same goes for dumb kids lucky enough to be born to rich parents. But I’m not sure the advantage is so huge that one needs to have sleepless nights over it.

                                            On the other hand, assuming you’re American, from what I hear you do live in a society where some people are screwed from birth, through no fault of their own, and where no amount of hard work will ever help them much. I don’t know to which extent this is the case; my only source of information is the media.

                                            [quote]If you’re not seeing what I’m seeing, and you’re not bitter, then I don’t know what to say. Consider that I never had ability in [I]anything.[/I] Pray tell, where is the accolades, the allotment of “social value based on achievement” for those of us with virtually no aptitude? Riddle me that.[/quote]

                                            Well, once again it could be that you just live in a society where only certain forms of achievement are valued above all others.

                                            [quote]Surely one possible silver-lining you could offer would be something like this:

                                            “Here and there you get ones, who start with little aptitude in anything, they’re slow learners who effectively prove, through their actions, that they’re just hapless. And then they believe that to be predictive of their entire life. So they amble along and fulfill the prophecy, underachieving in extreme ways, until eventually they find something to grab onto, let’s say art, and through pushing themselves to discard the negative beliefs and comparisons, achieve competence in later life.”

                                            So, am I right, or…?

                                            Well, I don’t know. I suppose it depends to some extent what you want in the first place.

                                            My experience is this: I don’t think I have ever met anyone who is actually bad at absolutely everything. The world is now a diverse place, and chances are that there is some sort of niche for all of us out there. In my case, it is pretty clear that my niche is not a degree in electrical engineering, earned at nine, or any other age. :-)

                                            Mind you, if electricity really interested me, and I put my mind to it, I could quite possibly qualify as electrician, or some other similar technical and electricity-related profession. Just about any average person can achieve a professional standard in almost any field, I think. It’s just that one should keep a broad mind about what exactly the parameters of a field are, and what is meant by a professional.

                                            Can all of us, through enough practice, become high-level professional golf players? Probably not. But if you really profoundly love golf, could you become some sort of golfing professional, and make your living out of the game? Probably. Practice enough, and you will almost certainly get good enough to become a teacher of the game, or a commentator, or involved in the administration, or a writer of books on the subject, etc. etc. There are many, many more golf-related things than just being a golfing superstar.

                                            The same goes for almost all other fields. I currently manage to scrape a humble living out of art, albeit not as artist as such (I seldom manage to sell any art). I think I am probably better off than I would have been if I had been a famous electrical engineer who hated his job, though it is of course true that I would be even better off if I had been a rich and famous artist. :-)

                                            Anyway, we both have typical “late bloomer” personalities – we came late to our passion, and suffer from perpetual uncertainty about it. As famous an artist as Cezanne spent his entire career, even into his final years, in perpetual frustration and uncertainty. He at least did bloom (though it’s not clear that he himself actually ever realized it); in my case I have no such guarantee, even for myself, so I can’t really promise you anything. :-)

                                            I have learned to live without the silver linings. They’re illusory, because we can’t actually easily tell whether some alternative life would have been better. The electrical genius kid might get leukemia next year; would we still envy him then? I may get famous tomorrow, get invited to go present a glamorous art workshop in France, and then die in a plane crash on my way there.

                                            Now when I go through my Instagram feed, it is sometimes difficult not to think that all those people are just so much more talented and successful and glamorous than I am. Such are the dangers of a world flooded in information. Heck, they really are more talented and successful than I am. But should it necessarily bother me? I mean, when you think about it, what negative impact does their talent or success really have on me?

                                            Well, I don’t really have answers anyway; I am very familiar with self-doubt, he’s like that annoying aunt who keeps on visiting all the time and doesn’t seem to get any hints. Perhaps you should write to the Pope instead. :-)

                                            __________________________
                                            http://brianvds.blogspot.co.za/

                                            #907787
                                            Alerio
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                                                I wish the kid all the best in his life, may he be able to follow his talents and do something with them. There are worse things than studying engineering at age 9. There are also worse things than not knowing what you want to be when you grow up, at age 30. I’ve heard it said that genius is actually far more common than we realize, but very few have the opportunity or support to develop what they might have. Mendelssohn grew up in an affluent, intellectual family and was given music lessons from a very early age. It would be much harder for someone born with Mendelssohn’s gifts into an impoverished family that believed that music was deviltry. If a child get beaten up at school for getting As, and their parent’s don’t care or won’t intervene, pretty soon the child will give up on learning. That this particular child has the advantage of caring support, allowing him to follow his interests, certainly does not mean that anyone else should feel envy and self-loathing. Nor is he a new kind of human – just a more privileged one.
                                                Not that there aren’t individuals who do seem to come out of nowhere; my own grandmother pulled herself out of the worst poverty and crushing circumstances into an affluent middle class life, through her iron will and ferocious self discipline. Even she, though, met with flashes of good luck and unexpected support, without which she would not have succeeded.

                                                ~Christine

                                                #907781

                                                I agree with Brian, especially about there being a niche for everyone. You obviously write very well, with a level of verbal sophistication that indicates intelligence. That doesn’t mean you don’t face other challenges, and I don’t want to shrug those off–they are real enough that you present them here. But it does tend to suggest you have something real going for you. You do not have challenges in all areas, but actually have at least one important strength.

                                                As for self doubt, it is probably just about universal.

                                                The story of art is full of stories of late bloomers. But keep exploring other things as well.

                                                "None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm." - Henry David Thoreau

                                                Moderator Acrylics Forum~~~Reference Image Library

                                                #907776
                                                brianvds
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                                                    It would be much harder for someone born with Mendelssohn’s gifts into an impoverished family that believed that music was deviltry.

                                                    Or even a rich but neglectful family. During my teaching days I have seen what parental neglect does to children. It’s catastrophic, and quite literally induces a kind of brain damage. Such kids are pretty much screwed, whatever talents they may have been born with.

                                                    __________________________
                                                    http://brianvds.blogspot.co.za/

                                                    #907784
                                                    Batman55
                                                    Default

                                                        But I’m not sure the advantage is so huge that one needs to have sleepless nights over it.
                                                        [/quote]
                                                        I think the idea is sound–and kudos to you, if that’s how you really see it–but I’m mostly seeing it for what it is. The advantage we’re talking about for individuals like this, or polymathic overachievers in general, exceeds in flying colors the very qualities celebrated in a materialist society especially one like the USA.

                                                        It leads me to ponder, over and over again, questions like this. Just *what is it* that makes some folks incredibly competent, and what is it that leads some to the extreme opposite? Is it simply genetic hardwired intelligence, assuming we’re controlling for other factors?
                                                        [QUOTE=brianvds]
                                                        Well, once again it could be that you just live in a society where only certain forms of achievement are valued above all others.
                                                        [/quote]
                                                        It would be a bit too controversial to get into this topic as it relates to “dating prospects” and the like. Social perception/class is of course another big thing here, but I’ve got to be honest, I’m talking about both things.

                                                        About as far as I can go is to say, it’s every bit as bad as you think here… going into detail, could end up encouraging a laborious “gender wars” argument… basically folks telling me “that’s how it is for you guys, what about the other side?” and so on, not very productive. Perhaps I’m not being clear enough as to what I mean, but again, controversy requires hints without too many specifics, that’s how it works.

                                                        The point I ought to address here is whether it’s different in other countries, which you seem to hint toward.
                                                        [QUOTE=brianvds]
                                                        I think I am probably better off than I would have been if I had been a famous electrical engineer who hated his job,
                                                        [/quote]
                                                        I’m not sure if you can faithfully make this “they end up hating their job” argument about prodigies. Now, it’s certainly a very possible outcome. But wouldn’t it be more logical to think these are the very folks who would not hate their job, given the “extreme passion and obsession in a particular field” is a defining trait of all prodigies?

                                                        If you have any proof that this would be a likely outcome for “most” or “many”, you may want to back that up.
                                                        [QUOTE=brianvds]
                                                        Now when I go through my Instagram feed, it is sometimes difficult not to think that all those people are just so much more talented and successful and glamorous than I am. Such are the dangers of a world flooded in information. Heck, they really [I]are [/I]more talented and successful than I am. But should it necessarily bother [I]me[/I]? I mean, when you think about it, what negative impact does their talent or success really have on me?

                                                        What negative impact does their success have on me? you ponder.

                                                        I can answer that. Such folks are like cement for the Cult of Status, to boil it down. So long as they “hold court” they take up all the attention, with none left for those who aren’t in the “status club.”

                                                        I think you can understand why I would question, how you are not bitter when faced with this fact.

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