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April 12, 2017 at 1:29 pm #995014
I have just begun working with acrylics after years of working in oil. I am a part time hobbiest at this so every work is a new learning experience. My first acrylic painting wound up completely ruined because of a feature I did not know about with regard to MDF. I paint, even in oils, on MDF. It’s cheap. I sand, gesso and paint. However, either I didn’t sand thoroughly, or it’s just unavoidable, but oil from the panel (apparently there is oil in MDF) leeched up into the painting and I have the equivalent of oil stains/spots all over the painting. Or maybe they are water spots. I’m not exactly sure. The day I was buying supplies to begin experimenting with acrylics my sales person at my favorite art store says to me, after I tell him that I paint on MDF, “you should buy this . . . “. It’s a sealer for the panel before gessoing. He explains to me that I could get what looks like water spots all over the painting so I should seal my panels first. Now I trust him, so I bought it. But I had this panel already gessoed that I wanted to paint on, so I just did; using acrylics and water as my medium. The painting comes out respectably, but a day later it is obviously completely ruined. Exactly what my salesperson said could happen, did happen. So now, I sand, seal, then gesso, then paint. So far so good. I’ve only been using acrylics about a month or so now. Below is one I did at one of those paint nights recently on canvas. I’ll post a work in progress in What’s on Your Easel too.
Patty
April 12, 2017 at 2:53 pm #1268279I use to paint on MDF- I’ve made at least a hundred paintings on mdf and never had a problem. Never used a sealant, just gesso. never sanded the board before painting. Are you sure the board you’re painting on is mdf and not masonite. Mdf has no oils to leak, they are NOT pressure treated and are a 100% wood product. It is smooth on both sides and a light brown colour.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/18-Sep-2019/1999899-sigsmall.jpg
STUDIOBONGOApril 12, 2017 at 3:20 pm #1268252It’s labeled as tempered hardboard. 1/8 inch thick.
Patty
April 12, 2017 at 3:49 pm #1268280That’s NOT MDF. mdf is not tempered, not hardboard – it’s made of Medium Density Fiber
http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/18-Sep-2019/1999899-sigsmall.jpg
STUDIOBONGOApril 12, 2017 at 3:56 pm #1268253Ah, these terms are thrown around so often it’s hard to know what’s what. I’ve also heard that they don’t actually sell MDF anymore. But the point is, I paint on this tempered hardboard and my first acrylic painting either leeched oil or sucked water from the paint, I’m not sure which. It looked exactly as the salesperson in the store told me it would, like the painting had little droplets of spreading spots all over it. So I now I always sand AND seal first before the gesso layer. I buy my hardboard at Home Depot. One of these days I’ll go to a real lumber vendor and look at what the other options might be.
Patty
April 12, 2017 at 4:05 pm #1268254This is the stuff:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Hardboard-Tempered-Panel-Common-3-16-in-x-4-ft-x-8-ft-Actual-0-155-in-x-47-7-in-x-95-7-in-832780/202404545Last time I bought two 24 x 48 panels and got 9 panels to paint on. I could never afford this if I had to buy pre-stretched canvas for every piece and have not advanced to a stage where I am willing to stretch my own.
I welcome thoughts on other types of product to paint on if you have any. Affordability is key.
Patty
April 12, 2017 at 5:50 pm #1268281Well, you might try MDF. They sell 24×48 x1/4″ panels at Home Depot – I only stopped using it because I needed to go wider than 24″.. Just gesso and paint.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/18-Sep-2019/1999899-sigsmall.jpg
STUDIOBONGOApril 13, 2017 at 8:00 am #1268272Here is what Golden has to say about surface preparation and leaching gunk out of the substrate. Scroll down to the paragraph about SID.
https://www.goldenpaints.com/technicalinfo_prepsupp
A painting is never really done as long as I can get my hands on it.
April 13, 2017 at 12:31 pm #1268282This is the stuff:
[url]http://www.homedepot.com/p/Hardboard-Tempered-Panel-Common-3-16-in-x-4-ft-x-8-ft-Actual-0-155-in-x-47-7-in-x-95-7-in-832780/202404545[/url]
Last time I bought two 24 x 48 panels and got 9 panels to paint on. I could never afford this if I had to buy pre-stretched canvas for every piece and have not advanced to a stage where I am willing to stretch my own.
Affordability is key.I find that stretching your own canvas, especially in larger sizes is no bargain compared to panel. Buying smaller sizes of pre-stretched canvas in quantity bundles when on sale is about the only way to get close to the price of diy cradled panels.
I have been painting on Yupo for the last many years and am switching back to panel.
The stacks of hardboard at home depot look like a roller coaster, the board is so thin and pliable. In the same bay you’ll find 5mm/underlayment – looks exactly like regular 1/4 ply. If you compare hardboard and 5mm you will never paint on hardboard again. The 5mm plywood – or underlayment cost about $13. per 4×8 sheet.
No oils, no sanding.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/RevolutionPly-5mm-Poplar-Plywood-Application-as-4-x-8/50121135
http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/18-Sep-2019/1999899-sigsmall.jpg
STUDIOBONGOApril 13, 2017 at 12:51 pm #1268255The other thing I learned that I forgot to mention and that I have never seen explained very well is why to sand in between coats of gesso. I know it may be a less smooth surface, but I discovered if I use a thick coat, when the painting is finished I can see the brush strokes from applying the gesso. So it would make sense to sand in between. I was told that if I apply thin layers, the layer tends to level more easily making sanding less necessary. That turns out to be true, so I thin my gesso with water for each layer. But I do still sand in between because I prefer not see the paint strokes from applying the gesso and like a very smooth surface. What this does mean, however, is 4 to six layers of gesso. It sounds time consuming, but it’s not really. I just apply a coat everytime I go downstairs to do my laundry and I have a couple of fresh panels to paint with about once a week.
Patty
April 13, 2017 at 12:56 pm #1268256The stacks of hardboard at home depot look like a roller coaster, the board is so thin and pliable. In the same bay you’ll find 5mm/underlayment – looks exactly like regular 1/4 ply. If you compare hardboard and 5mm you will never paint on hardboard again. The 5mm plywood – or underlayment cost about $13. per 4×8 sheet.
No oils, no sanding.
These look like they might crack or be brittle when cutting into smaller pieces. But I’m interested now and will try it. Thank you for the tip.
Patty
April 13, 2017 at 1:47 pm #1268283But I do still sand in between because I prefer not see the paint strokes from applying the gesso and like a very smooth surface. What this does mean, however, is 4 to six layers of gesso. It sounds time consuming, but it’s not really. I just apply a coat everytime I go downstairs to do my laundry and I have a couple of fresh panels to paint with about once a week.
If you apply gesso with a paint roller you won’t have any paint strokes.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/18-Sep-2019/1999899-sigsmall.jpg
STUDIOBONGOApril 18, 2017 at 4:42 am #1268271Are MDF-boards likely to warp with changes in humidity etc? I´m thinking of going over to MDF-board since they are very smooth and therefore should work very well for glazing(?).
April 18, 2017 at 6:11 am #1268251Are MDF-boards likely to warp with changes in humidity etc? I´m thinking of going over to MDF-board since they are very smooth and therefore should work very well for glazing(?).
Depends how much humidity change you mean. If you move them from Arizona to Rio de Janeiro , then yes they will warp. But if you are worried about that you can gesso its back and sides as well that reduces greatly the absorption from atmosphere.
"no no! You are doing it all wrong, in the internet we are supposed to be stubborn, inflexible and arrogant. One cannot simply be suddenly reasonable and reflexive in the internet, that breaks years of internet tradition as a medium of anger, arrogance, bigotry and self entitlement. Damm these internet newcomers being nice to to others!!!"
"If brute force does not solve your problem, then you are not using enough!"
April 18, 2017 at 6:42 am #1268273Penol777, in my experience, applying water based materials to MDF raises some of the wood fibers, making the surface a bit rough. Never had that problem with hardboard.
PattyC, I’ve found underlayment to be very sensitive to moisture on its surface. When you seal it or prime it you must, must, must do the same thing to both sides at the same time. If you don’t it will likely assume the shape of a potato chip. What I’ve done in the past is prime the back first, then balance the wet side on empty peanut butter jars while priming the front.
Cutting it will product splinters. Bosch makes a jigsaw blade especially for plywood but the results are mixed, especially for cross grain cuts. Best results I’ve gotten are with a table saw and a fine-tooth blade.
A painting is never really done as long as I can get my hands on it.
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