Home Forums The Learning Center Color Theory and Mixing help: cerulean blue substitute?

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  • #987499
    Shadia
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        Hi,

        I’m participating in a PA workshop tomorrow (Yeah!) and I just got the list of the recommended colors to bring along.

        Cerulean blue is one of the few allowed, and among the many blues I have… it’s not one of them…. (of course! isnt it always the case…)

        So, I have ultramarine, phtalo, cobalt, manganese… all pure single pigments.

        I really want to be able to follow the teacher, and achieve the same greens that he will ( greens are not allowed, we will have to mix them from ultra and cerulean + cad yellow light). Is manganese a possible replacement?

        I plan to buy it tonight if I have to; it’s pricey though. (I would not buy a hue…)

        So I’ll wait for any input you could have!

        Have a nice day and thanks in advance! :wave:

        Shadia

        #1107822
        WFMartin
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            In my opinion, Cerulean Blue is one of the most overrated colors that there is in oil paint. Cerulean can quite easily imitated by mixing a touch of Thalo Blue with a much larger amount of white. To more accurately imitate the color of true, Cerulean, it may be necessary to actually dull it down a bit, and swing it toward Yellow or Magenta, by adding some red, or Yellow,….but just a tiny touch. It depends upon the particular brand of Cerulean Blue you’re trying to imitate.

            I’ve recently found that a fine replacement for Cerulean Blue is Manganese Blue, and I have the Old Holland Manganese Blue. It works very well for skies, mixed with a bunch of white.

            For painting skies, you will find that the best way to begin mixing your color is to start with white, and select some “blue” to mix with it. When doing this, you will discover that MANY “blues” can create a fairly acceptabel sky color, when mixed with enough white.

            A good exercise for you would be to squeeze out some Cobalt Blue and some French Ultramarine Blue on your palette. In masstone (as squeezed out of the tube) they appear very different from each other. Then, mix each of these blues with enough white to cause each of them to be identical with the other in value (lightness/darkness). You may be quite surprised at what you may learn from doing this. After doing this experiment, determine for yourself whether buying the more expensive, Cobalt Blue has much practical merit.

            You may find that Cerulean Blue and Manganese Blue are quite unremarkable for mixing with Yellow, to produce useful greens. Both Cerulean Blue and Manganese Blue have a substantial “white” content. This does not mean that the manufacturer has mixed white with the pigment–it only means that those blue pigments reflect other colors BESIDES Blue and Green, in their natural state. And, realize that when enough other colors are reflected from a paint, that color begins to approach the appearance of white.

            Such “light” colors of “blue” seem very weak, to me, for use in mixing with Cad Yellow Light, for achieving effective, natural greens. Better choices would be French Ultramarine Blue, Prussian Blue, and Thalo Blue, depending upon the chroma (intensity/purity) of the green you wish. Each of these choices creates a much deeper, darker green than does some very light “blue” such as Cerulean Blue. When mixed with such colors as Ivory Black, and Cadmium Red Deep, to darken them, they are quite useful. I have not used a tube green in about 20 years, and have chosen to mix my own.

            Deeper blues can always be lightened with white, but when you begin with a blue such as Cerulean Blue, it cannot be expected to produce deep greens, because it is so very light to begin with. The word, “wimpy” best describes the sort of green produced by mixing Cerulean with Cad Yellow with the expectation of achieving a natural-appearing green. Perhaps not politically correct, but still quite descriptive, I believe.

            Just a few thoughts from my experience.

            Bill

            wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
            https://williamfmartin.blogspot.com

            #1107826
            Shadia
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                thanks so much Bill! I’ll take note about this little test, and will do it in a near future.

                Perhaps for tomorrow it will be best to bring my manganese, along with Ultramarine. I guess the teacher uses cerulean for the skies, and ultramarine to mix the greens…

                Shadia :)

                #1107823
                gunzorro
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                    I agree with Bill on the tinted hue being nearly identical in Cobalt Blue and Ultramarine Blue Light. When white or other light colors are added, it is extremely hard to distinquish (regular UMB, not the “French” which is more violet).

                    I somewhat disagree that Manganese Blue is a close match for Cerulean. Manganese is quite transparent as a color from the tube, and very vivid when undiluted. But it lacks tinting strength and doesn’t hold up well in mixes. Cerulean is stronger more opaque, although not strongly so, and its blue-green hue is different.

                    Here are some examples of some of the colors mentioned in this thread:
                    Old Holland Manganese Blue
                    Art Spectrum Cerulean (genuine)
                    Vasari Cerulean (genuine)
                    OH Ultramarine Blue Light
                    OH Cobalt Blue

                    In a pinch, you could get by with the Art Spectrum version that runs about $15 compared to the Vasari for around $55. ;) But as you can see, not all paints are equal — the Vasari is quite strong and vivid, and lacks the grittiness/dullness of the Art Spectrum. Still, they will produce very similar hues. I don’t recommend any of the three OH Cerulean variations, as they are all very dull.

                    As I mentioned, you can see here that the UMB Light and Cobalt are quite close, at least closer than the Manganese compared to the Cerulean.

                    Good luck with your seminar. :)

                    #1107827
                    awerth
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                        For what it’s worth, Golden has in their mixing guide a formula that mixes to an approximate cerulean:

                        80 parts Zinc White
                        10 parts Phthalo Blue GS
                        1 part Quinacridone Magenta

                        http://www.goldenpaints.com/images/ColorMixingGuide.pdf

                        #1107821

                        I plan to buy it tonight if I have to; it’s pricey though. (I would not buy a hue…)

                        Perfect prior post for you then, here :)

                        Einion

                        Do you know if your colour is off in hue, value, chroma... or all three?

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                        #1107825
                        Shadia
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                            Thanks so much everybody! I’ll see what Mr Milone will say about it tomorrow!

                            Shadia:wave:

                            #1107824
                            mad4color
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                                Michael Wilcox likes cerulean blue, but I have found it dull. I agree that it’s overrated.

                                I do like genuine cobalt some.

                                Lukas has a nice manganese blue available at ASW Express or Jerry’s Artarama, cheaper than Old Hollan.

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