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Old 04-15-2018, 01:33 PM
forrie forrie is offline
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Re: Does the Flemish Technique Have Advantages?

It seems the overall benefit here is in layering. Whatever "approach" you decide is a personal choice, but the technical advantages are clearly there. An excellent example might include works by Maxfield Parrish. I also imagine this technique developed out of necessity at some point, where/when artists were liable for making their own paints and didn't have an art store to run to (or Amazon LOL), thereby using less color and in thin applications.

On average I see how this type of approach does indeed allow one to obtain a certain color and vibrance that you really can't obtain with single layer paintings.
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Old 04-15-2018, 07:03 PM
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Re: Does the Flemish Technique Have Advantages?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigalot
Then who was the artist invented this 7-layers method?

Ask the artist who invented the six layer method
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Old 04-15-2018, 09:25 PM
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Re: Does the Flemish Technique Have Advantages?

In Acrylics? The Egg Cup is pretty nice.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=414645
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:08 AM
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Re: Does the Flemish Technique Have Advantages?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcam
In Acrylics? The Egg Cup is pretty nice.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=414645
Thank you Derek, awesome work. I think, that acrylic white can have "Lead White" paint layers irregularity and pretty nice looking structure.
BTW, I think, that "Imprimatura" and "Dead Layer' were invented in Italian art. I was sure, that Flemish artists preferred white canvas surface and some yellow ochre underpaintings? While green colored underlayer was Byzantine art invention.

Last edited by Gigalot : 04-16-2018 at 05:15 AM.
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Old 04-16-2018, 07:12 AM
Hamburgefions Hamburgefions is offline
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Re: Does the Flemish Technique Have Advantages?

Quote:
Originally Posted by forrie
Is there really any meaningful advantage to the (time consuming) Flemish technique vs. just working from simpler approaches. Does it add more depth, is it really appropriate for non-portraits (for example).

I've read that many people have dropped this approach due to its time consuming (and tiresome) approach. Some simply don't follow it specifically -- I can see a grisaille (in one stage) being one way to shorten this.

Curious what more experienced painters here feel about this.

I've seen some works started with a simple umber layer, then grisaille (be that tinted or not) and from there, color.

First of all I can say, that a "Flemish technique" or " a 7-layer technique" is only a general expression (I first heard of it through the internet) for paintings, executed in layers in an ancient manner, a technique such as one used to use in the 15-16-17th century or even later.

So many painters there are (or were), so many different techniques there are or were. It's ridiculous to paint a painting in 7 layers, when 3 or 4 are sufficient. It s even more ridiculous to cover a 6th of 7th layer of paint over the whole surface when it s only partially needed.
When somebody talks about a "7-layer or flemish technique", always take it with a (big) grain of salt. Sometimes I see artists applying "unnessarily" too many layers of paint, only to reach up to that magical 7th layer. No need for it.

Important is: in what style you want to paint something, and than you have to find the best way to achieve this. Whether it be 1, 4, 7 or 10 layers.

Maybe it is time consuming, but sometimes it s the only, or even the fastest way to achieve your goal.
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:48 AM
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Re: Does the Flemish Technique Have Advantages?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humbaba

Do you notice any difference here:




https://www.artistsnetwork.com/art-m...=CHarnnl011414
I do. The top one, though expertly painted, is a static portrait. It shows a lot of detail, but there isn't any life to it. The second one is lively, gives enough visual information, but not so much that it takes the life out of it again.
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:20 AM
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Re: Does the Flemish Technique Have Advantages?

On the second portrait, brains are smeared on the wall and girl's face have several green pathology colored areas + hematoma around the left eye. It looks like a "standardized" masterpiece of contemporary pathologic-anatomy artistic expression!

Last edited by Gigalot : 04-16-2018 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:07 AM
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Re: Does the Flemish Technique Have Advantages?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigalot
On the second portrait, brains are smeared on the wall and girl's face have several green pathology colored areas + hematoma around the left eye. It looks like a "standardized" masterpiece of contemporary pathologic-anatomy artistic expression!
I'm not fond of the background myself. I WOULD, however, rather hang that one on my wall than the other. But I'm not a fan of highly detailed work. In most cases I feel it becomes too technical, and feeling is lost.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:26 AM
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Re: Does the Flemish Technique Have Advantages?

I like the red on the wall a lot in the second one- the color matches the look in her eyes perfectly. Both are very well done, but that second one has some life to it that the more conventionally-aesthetic top portraight just can't match without painting a bit outside the lines here and there.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:39 AM
Richard P Richard P is offline
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Re: Does the Flemish Technique Have Advantages?

Quote:
Important is: in what style you want to paint something, and than you have to find the best way to achieve this. Whether it be 1, 4, 7 or 10 layers.

Maybe it is time consuming, but sometimes it s the only, or even the fastest way to achieve your goal.

I agree
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:52 AM
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Re: Does the Flemish Technique Have Advantages?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humbaba
If you compare a Bob Ross painting vs a multi layered one, you could notice some differences. Based on what I have seen so far, the artist has a better control of the final outcome, and the beauty is beyond a photograph, withstanding hundreds of years.

Place yourself 300-400 years back in time, imagine being presented with something so beautiful that your mind and heart practically stay static for a second.

Do you notice any difference here:




https://www.artistsnetwork.com/art-m...=CHarnnl011414

Yes one girl is looking at me(the first one). The second at somebody to the left of me. The prize goes to the first one.
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:27 PM
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Re: Does the Flemish Technique Have Advantages?

But what if the second was looking at you?

I like both styles but I really like Sargeant's portrait work which of course is more direct and impressionistic.

As a landscape artist this Flemish stuff is Greek to me.
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Old 04-17-2018, 02:56 AM
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Re: Does the Flemish Technique Have Advantages?

Really great info in this thread!!

I can't add much to what's been said of historical work. (Which is amazing!)

But I do use glazing quite often in my landscapes work.

Here is an example of using it on a couple of tree trunks in a piece that I am currently working on.

Here I've laid most all of the detail down on the trunks, but have yet to apply a final thin glaze.



And here I added a very transparent glaze (burnt umber, a touch of ivory black and sap green) to create shading and shape into them.



For me building up layers and glazing really helps keep my transition of shading to highlights very smooth. I'm certainly no master and my methods aren't near as complex, but I think taking bits of method created by history and incorporating them into our own helps us all be better artists.
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Old 04-17-2018, 11:50 AM
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Re: Does the Flemish Technique Have Advantages?

Well done, Lon! You can almost feel the bark!
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Old 04-17-2018, 02:27 PM
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Re: Does the Flemish Technique Have Advantages?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humbaba
Do you notice any difference here:




https://www.artistsnetwork.com/art-m...=CHarnnl011414

First image is a very highly rendered piece, which has a slight unfortunate effect of losing some depth due to everything being in high focus, but has wonderful color depth overall. Second appears to be a Schmid to me, from the handling of the background and application of strokes that he tends to use.

Personally I like the second better in style and focal range and contrasts of sharp details versus not. The second is actually the idea of a moment caught in time, because I can't focus on everything in a mere moment. I have tried in my memories to explore the details of a momentary glance, and found that I can remember some parts very clearly, but I'll be hard pressed if I remember how a piece of fabric was hanging a girls shoulder exactly no matter how hard I try, it isn't the focus of my memory. . . it was her eyes and nose (she had the cutest little nose in history, so I married her).
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