Home Forums Explore Media Oil Painting Preparing a board for oil painting

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  • #993107
    John Stirrips
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        Hi everyone.

        I’ve been looking into preparing a board for painting on. I’m reasonably happy with and confident about the structure that i’ve made (a board mounted to a wooden frame/brace, similar to a stretcher for a canvas). Anyway its the actual preparing of the surface that I’m concerned about.

        Now from what I understand you can just apply gesso to the wood but its better to “size” the wood first. It seems that Golden® GAC100 is the best thing to seal the wood. (I assume sizing and sealing is the same thing??)

        Anyway, I live in Vietnam and they don’t have Golden® GAC100 here. So I was wondering what I could use as a substitute?? One source said: “A size is a thin solution (often a weak glue) that is brushed directly onto a support.”

        So from that do you think I can safely assume that I could just use a thinned out wood glue as a substitute for golden GAC?? I was thinking about just doing a layer or two of wood glue, letting that dry completely, and then applying the gesso (2 or 3 layers??) Or something someone told me that they use is just acrylic painting medium (which has a glue like consistency), and then applying gesso on top of that.

        Does anyone have any thoughts on whether either of these two approaches might be a satisfactory substitution for golden GAC, or have any other ideas as to how to properly size/seal a wooden panel so that I can just apply a couple of layers of gesso over the top and then start painting??

        Any advice or suggestions would be most appreciated.

        Thanks guys,

        John.

        #1227111
        Hazyview
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            I use gelatin to size my boards. It works really well. I also use gelatin as the binder in my gypsum ground. I just slack cheap plaster of Paris. I also usually cover the back and sides in a polyurethane after the glue size. Once you get the hang of it gypsum grounds are very easy to sand to a smooth finish. Some artists in my part of the world just cover the wood with polyurethane and paint strait on that. Apparently it forms a very good vapor barrier. ….

            #1227106
            MarkMark
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                You can just prime the board directly. I use a clear acrylic gesso

                #1227107
                Ben Sones
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                    You can prime without sizing if you are using an oil primer, but with acrylic gesso you run the risk of support-induced discoloration. (Which I guess wouldn’t be an issue with clear gesso, but with white gesso it would be a concern).

                    #1227116
                    Moqui Steps
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                        I don’t like the texture that PVA sizes give me, so I skip that process entirely and apply an acrylic gesso directly to the tempered hardboard or birch panel, sometimes thinned sometimes not, sometimes with a brush, sometimes with a roller. I give the back and sides one or two coats and don’t sand them. I have never seen any color bleeding through the gesso when using the tempered hardboard from Lowe’s.

                        Lately I am attracted to the flatly ground fine grit sandstone like texture I get from rolling on 3-4 coats with a small foam roller, then lightly wet or dry sanding with 220 grit sand paper when dry. The longer you roll, the more gritty the texture seems to get as it partially dries, so if you want it smoother, work fast and let it self level while still pretty wet.

                        You will save on wasted gesso and clean up time and mess, if you apply it to the roller directly with a pallet knife or wood mixing stick, rather than using a pan to get the gesso on the roller. Spread it out on the panel then work it in for an even coat.

                        I spritz the roller with a water spray then remove it from the handle and put it into a tightly sealed plastic back with the air forced out when done without cleaning. They are ready to roll weeks later. This also saves on a bunch of wasted gesso. While doing multiple coats, don’t remove it, just wrap the roller while still on the handle with a thin plastic bag or plastic wrap to keep it wet until you come back for your next coat. A spritz of water helps here too.

                        I bought some “sandable” Golden gesso but didn’t find it any easier to sand down than the other brands I have tried, they warn you about cracking with the sandable, and it costs twice as much as my most used gesso – Joe Miller Signature. Joe’ Signature has been my go to brand the last few months, about $13 / quart vs $31 for the Golden Sandable and $26 for the regular Golden.

                        If you don’t use a wet sanding method, make sure the gesso is completely cured and don’t press down too hard or you will get gesso chunks sticking to your sandpaper.

                        .

                        #1227103
                        Delofasht
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                            I use gelatin to size my boards. It works really well. I also use gelatin as the binder in my gypsum ground. I just slack cheap plaster of Paris. I also usually cover the back and sides in a polyurethane after the glue size. Once you get the hang of it gypsum grounds are very easy to sand to a smooth finish. Some artists in my part of the world just cover the wood with polyurethane and paint strait on that. Apparently it forms a very good vapor barrier. ….

                            Interesting, I know that gypsum is often used for a variety of plaster and molding purposes but I had not considered it as a ground for painting. (which seems silly now that I notice on the bag it even mentions it) I would love to know more about your process of preparing your boards.

                            - Delo Delofasht
                            #1227112
                            Hazyview
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                                Delofasht,
                                Really I just follow a traditional hide glue gesso method. As you will no doubt find gypsum and gesso refer to the same thing. My understanding is that Calcite and Gypsum have both been used in deep history as grounds for various types of painting. To prepare the plaster I put it in a bucket with excess water and stir every few minutes for an hour. this prevents it setting into a block. I drain off the water and wash the gypsum a couple of times. Then after it has settled and most of the water has been drained off I tip it into a cloth and squeeze out the excess water. I then allow the powder to dry for future use. I still end up with clods of gypsum but it melts away when added to water. On the advice given in Mayer’s book I put an extra coat of glue size on after the final sanding/float blocking. I have found this to be necessary and entirely satisfactory treatment to prevent over absorbency. Being able to control the absorbency of the ground is really nice in tailoring it to suit my under painting style.

                                The real advantage of gypsum over calcite for me is how easy it is to sand. If I intend to do silver point, then it has to be calcite, gypsum is simply too soft. Oh, I also get a kick out of being able to make grounds for 1/10th the cost of what a commercial product would cost. And on that point, the food grade gelatin I use is a hide based gelatin that the company states has a bloom rating of 250. Food grade gelitins range from the low 100s up to 300ish. Perhaps the poor quality ones would not be suitable for this process. I also use the gelatin to glue the bracing on the board face. The glue is much stronger than PVA.

                                #1227104
                                Delofasht
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                                    Hazyview thanks for the information! Upon further research I do see some mentions of gypsum, most of the information I had read simply referred to chalk however. I find the gelatin to be an interesting source for a glue, and not something I had considered either. These days it is much easier to get lost in using synthetically man made materials, the effects of which are much harder to predict than those of more natural sources. (oftentimes far more costly too) Almost everything needed for preparing wood panels for painting could be found in a hardware store (except perhaps the gelatin in your case). I am going to have to look into gelatin as a glue more deeply, sounds fascinating and yet another thing I would like to know more about. I am kind of surprised by all the information I missed when learning oil painting so long ago, of course books at that time were my only source and only the ones I could find in the local bookstore (pre-internet era learning at it’s best).

                                    Edit: I have found acrylic based polymers and glues to have vastly different characteristics that alter the handling of oils on grounds involving them. As such I keep looking for different handling properties, currently using some rather absorbent course textured boards for painting that I am loving, but making my own would be nice as a way of really customizing the surface for my methods.

                                    - Delo Delofasht
                                    #1227113
                                    Hazyview
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                                        I started to make my own gesso grounds after being inspired by Koo Schadler. I started collecting my own earth pigments and grinding out tempera paints. In retrospect this was a very important phase in my artistic development. I learnt that I was really struggling to deal with the high chroma of commercial paints. They overwhelmed my senses and confused me. Most critics would find my paintings very dull!

                                        there are a few out there in google land that simply use geletin like me. I was using a gelitin glue to do woodwork and realizing that it was more than strong enough to hold furniture together (wood will split before the glue gives way) so I don’t feel the need to get the most flexible, strong, ultra pure white rabbit super hide glue. Traditional gesso is more robust than some would have you believe. the only failure that I have had when i first started was due to way too strong a glue base and drying in front of a fan heater! it cracked! Please note that I do not claim to have any real expertise at any of this. I am self taught…..

                                        #1227108
                                        John Stirrips
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                                            Thanks everyone for your ideas and suggestions. I’ll take it on board.

                                            Cheers,

                                            John.

                                            #1227109
                                            John Stirrips
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                                                No pun intended, please believe me.

                                                #1227105
                                                Delofasht
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                                                    So this thread had me thinking so much about making some panels that I stopped by the hardware store and spent my lunch money on a 2’x4′ hardwood plywood. I got it cut into 1’x2′ panels and sized them with some gelatin glue that I whipped up from the unflavored gelatin that we had in the pantry at the house. I very thinly applied some gesso (made from the gelatin glue mixed with some marble dust), not enough to completely hide the wood grain and very splotchy but this is by design.

                                                    So now that they are all prepared and ready I am going to get to painting on them here soon. (After I get finished organizing my studio, stuff lying all over the place, well that and finish these 2 comissions I have going)

                                                    Big thanks to Hazy for all the information, the boards look nice, are small and light. As bit of interest I have found several sources stating that gelatin glue is actually stronger than RSG, which kind of makes sense to me as gelatin is refined from the stuff that hide glues are made from. As a hide glue itself, it has the same characteristics of absorbing water, changing dimensions slightly, and being considered ‘brittle’ (breaking if bent at steep angles). For my purposes this is not a problem and I do not plan to have my paintings in a shed or anything like that, or high heat and humidity either.

                                                    I will post some threads in the future with the paintings I do on them. Really easily made panels and very inexpensive too, 7$ on the panel cut to size, 2$ on gelatin (50¢ since I only needed one packet), and like half a cup of marble dust (probably like 50¢ once again the bag was like 6$ a few years ago and I still have 2 lbs left).

                                                    - Delo Delofasht
                                                    #1227114
                                                    Hazyview
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                                                        Great stuff!
                                                        Yes the materials sure are cheap. Which is precisely why you can’t buy them from the art store!

                                                        Collagen glue/Gelatin is quite variable stuff. Unfortunately a lot of traditional knowledge doesn’t translate well into modern usage because the practitioner lacks the thorough working understanding of the materials. For example rabbit skin glue is often recommend for purposes where its flexibility is necessary but it is not clear to me that modern rabbit skin glue is indeed more flexible. You see modern methods of production result in lower oil content which was traditionally high. This oil acts as a plasticiser. Adding to this is the fact that most rabbit skin glue sold actually doesn’t come from rabbits at all! Then there are issues like open time of the glue, although counter intuitive, a weaker glue with a longer open time may actually give a stronger bond. This is in part why something like PVA is so good. It is virtually fool proof and in many cases stronger glue than hide glue. Because most wood workers and gesso makers are not familiar with the differing varieties of glue, they are not in a position to be discerning about products offered. The thermal conductivity of hard woods can be an order of magnitude higher than soft woods. This means that heat is conducted away from the wood surface rapidly gelling the glue. This limits penetration of the glue. Yet you see woodworking magazines comparing hide glue to other glues without proper preparation like heating dese wood.

                                                        For one example with gesso, common advice is to apply subsequent layers of gesso to the only just touch dry previous layer. This is said to “ensure good adhesion”. Well yes, I have read Cennino Cennini (translation) and he does say to follow this practice. But he does not give the adhesion explanation. I am personally convinced that adhesion is not so much the issue as that of greater absorbency of a completely dry ground. This would draw that glue out of subsequent layers resulting in crumbly gesso.

                                                        Because of this disparity in modern knowledge and homogeneity in materials you need to test your system. When I first started making gesso the way I do I was worried because the gesso gets over 1mm thick. I thought that a panel dropped might get cracks through the thick relatively inflexible layer. To test this I made up a small hardboard panel and put thick gelatine gesso on. When dried, I through it against a brick wall 20 odd times. The only place that the gesso had troubles was where the hardboard was pulverised. Another test I do is to cut slivers of gesso from the edge of the panel. If I can get a curl of material coming off and not crumbling then in have a fair amount of confidence in it.

                                                        #1227115
                                                        LucyMT
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                                                            Hi John,
                                                            I just looked into this because I purchased birch wood panels that were on sale. I researched and found the 2 most common ways are putting 2 coats of GAC100 then apply 3-4 coats of gesso (but you cannot find GAC100). Which leads me to the 2nd one I contacted Gamblin and here is what they sent me;

                                                            Dear Lucy,
                                                            Thank you for contacting us.

                                                            If you are oil painting on birch panels we recommend sealing it first before applying Oil Ground. To seal wooden panels, use a 50/50 mixture of Galkyd/Gamsol. Brush it on, allow it to soak in for 2-3 minutes, then wipe away excess medium. This Galkyd mixture will penetrate and seal the substrate, rather than simply lay on top as a discrete layer. One coat is sufficient prior to applying Oil Ground. Apply two coats if painting on the wooden panel directly without Oil Ground.

                                                            Gamblin Oil Ground may also be applied in 1-2 thin coats to an acrylic gesso primed canvas or panel to reduce absorbency and improve color saturation of paint layers. Raw canvas requires a protective size (PVA Size or Rabbit Skin Glue) before applying Oil Ground. However, it is unnecessary to apply a size over acrylic gesso. Consider the acrylic gesso layers as the size.

                                                            So I hope this helps you John. I don’t know if its any easier for you to get the supplies mentioned above from Gamblin. I use Jerrysarterama.com and DickBlick.com to mail order supplies.
                                                            Best wishes,
                                                            Lucy

                                                            :wave: Lucy

                                                            #1227110
                                                            Steve Orin
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                                                                When I was young I dealt with all the historic stuff. What was done centuries ago. A quarter century ago I moved to Central Florida, home of Disney, Universal, etc. Worked for them a lot. Most of it for outside stuff, in the sun & weather. Compared my earlier learnings to what they did. Since then, come to realize that the old ways were mostly due to not knowing much. Not having the experience generated by decades of try, fail/succeed. That’s why I now longer use art acrylics. They fail. I don’t use wood boards… They warp & split. I use prime grade, multilayer furniture plywoods for panels & exterior rated primers such as Kilz. The plywood has very few gaps & are very well made. The primers are sandable & are made to last. My advice: The old ways were fine for their very limited knowledge. We are not so limited. I’ve made outside works that have been in the Florida sun & rain for over a quarter century that are still without any sign of problems. Proof’s in th’ puddin.

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