Never used the Gamblin, but I just looked it up. It’s a concoction of trusty old PR177 (anthraquinone red), which is the most common Alizarin Crimson replacement, and a Pthalo Green. But it’s not the usual Pthalo Green (PG7); it’s PG36, known for “a yellow shift that is especially noticeable in mixtures.”

Curiosity aroused, I just now dabbed a little PG7 into a nub of PR177 (from the el-cheapo Blick studio series). The result is darker and less vibrant than either real AC or PR177 by itself. The Gamblin version is undoubtedly much better.

My favorite dark red is probably Rembrandt’s famous Permanent Madder Deep, made with PR264. Pretty much indistinguishable from real AC, at least when moderately thinned with OMS. I don’t know how it would fare in a head-to-head matchup with the Gamblin product.

I’m pretty happy with PR177; W&N’s Permanent Alizarin uses that pigment and nothing else. Here’s what the Color of Art Pigment Database (http://www.artiscreation.com/red.html) mentions under it’s listing for Alizarin (PR83):

Unique Hue; PR 177, PR 179 or PR 264 are similar, and more permanent substitutes, but not identical

Rembrandt’s Permanent Madder Deep is a good sub for AC. But, be careful when you first use it . . . its tinting strength is strong.

The Langridge Quin Red in my collection can function as an AC substitute, but it really isn’t as dark in masstone as you want. What it is, really, is the color you would LIKE Cadmium Red Deep to be.

A bit of a divergence from the thread’s main subject, but. . . is that to say that Langridge’s Quin Red is more opaque than usual? That would be rather uncommon for a Quinacridone in general, but peaks my interest for sure!

Delo, it’s still pretty transparent. What I meant was that the Cad Red Deeps I’ve used (Shiva and Grumbacher) were dull and brownish. The Langridge Quin Red is high chroma and reads as a genuine red. Surprisingly, there really isn’t a cool undertone to it.

In that sense, some portrait painters may find it more helpful than AC or any of the common AC substitutes.

I am of the school of opinion that feels that a great substitute for real, Alizarin Crimson (PR83) is most hues with the pigment Identification of PR177.

M. Graham offers a wonderful Anthraquinone Red (PR177), which I use, and am using at present. Another great substitute is Old Holland’s Ruby Wine Red (PR177). It is very useful paint, if you can afford it.:lol:

I have no idea why Gamblin feels the need to include some sort of “green” with their PR177. I suppose they’re trying to “darken it”. Well, that darkening of it, also grays it, as well.

I always seek out the PR177’s for an Alizarin Crimson substitute. They are sometimes called different names by the manufacturers, but they perform very well. I don’t miss real, Alizarin Crimson, at all, actually.:)