Home Forums Explore Media Watercolor The Learning Zone Schmincke or Kremer Watercolors? HELP?

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  • #993913
    Mblick
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        Hi,

        It’s Marshall here, I havent been on in awhile since ive been preparing for a big move. To summarize briefly, i cannot decide between getting a palette of Schminke or Kremer watercolors. I have an undying love for daniel smith’s entire line of watercolors. They aren’t sticky or too opaque.

        I have come to the realization that where I am moving to will make it hard for me to buy kremer watercolors. I was thinking that if I have to make the choice, soon would be best.

        I have tried Sennelier watercolors previously and they had some sort of sticky consistency which I can’t surpass for some of the colors…I guess its because of the honey.

        My main question is whether I should go for the Kremer Watercolor Set 1 or a 12 set of Schmincke.

        I have only heard good things of Schmincke…well not on handprint.com…anywho, I have heard a tiny bit about the kremer paints, they are pigmented and focused on the single pigments. I only hear clashing things about Kremer, “its opaque” “its super transparent”.

        I am looking for transparency without any….sticky… consistency… I dont mind permanence, although I have been cursed with the habit of mostly buying blues and greens.

        I do like Holbein watercolors a bit, they do seem a little bit creamy/buttery/sticky, but they do have colors that are definitely worth it- and they dont take 1 or so weeks to dry! (not too happy with sennelier right now…)

        Continuing.
        Unless anyone has other suggestions… or maybe some way to save money on buying a used set of either of the brands so i can try it out. Please do tell me!

        I am a little unsure of what to do with my sennelier tubes for now, may makes some little palettes for my growing artist friends.

        PS.

        I will be sure to try and post some gorgeous watercolor paintings of the view from my home land New Zealand; I miss the scenery.

        You all may appreciate the photos and artwork produced by it

        "I put my heart and soul into my work, and I have lost my mind in the process." -Vincent Van Gogh
        #1248454
        Minerva C
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            This might not be helpful because I have not tried Kremer. I love Schmincke though. They are not sticky. About transparency, there are both transparent and opaque colours so you have to look at a chart to see which ones would suit you. There is a beautiful brochure at Schminkes website, with lots of information. If you like granulating paint this is probably not the brand for you.
            One thing I have noticed about Schminkes paints is that they seem to rewet extremely easy on the paper when you apply wet paint next to it. Therefore I prefer not to use it if I want to use much pigment.

            C

            "It is only when we are no longer fearful that we begin to create."
            J.M.W. Turner

            #1248447
            White Pen
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                Hi@All

                I vote for Kremer why read here

                link

                Cheers W.P.

                Humor is just another defense against the universe.........On-Line Homebase........

                #1248449
                tamiea
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                    From choices above I vote for Holbein because others I did not use. Now I use mostly holbein, Mgraham and Daniel smith

                    #1248440

                    Will it be difficult to order your materials online where you’re relocating?

                    Why does your choice need to be either/or?

                    I don’t feel that sets offer a logical selection of colour. Personally, I feel that choosing individual colours from a range of manufacturers, paying close attention to lightfastness and behaviour would be more successful.

                    I don’t have any experience with Kremer, so I cannot comment about that line. However, both Holbein and Schminke have colours that are multi pigment or simply not the same quality/vibrancy/behaviour as other brands.

                    And, each of us cannot really advise you what would work with your own process. Your choices will need to be relevant to what you paint and how you paint it! :)

                    Best of luck with your move and please let us know what you decide to take with you!

                    Char --

                    CharMing Art -- "Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art." Leonardo DaVinci

                    #1248451
                    LuckyLaura
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                        To me, Handprint.com seems to only favour US and UK brands. Maybe it’s just a coincidence. I too was surprised that they were lukewarm about Schmincke since so many artists recommend it and it looks so great. They seem to hate certain brands that other artists love. Just goes to show that it’s more than just pigment that makes a watercolour favourable to one artist over the other.

                        Kremer is very granulating. Teoh with Parka Blogs has a great review here.

                        I have both a few pans of Kremer and a couple dozen tubes of Schminke and I love them both. I don’t think you can go wrong with either.

                        I wouldn’t favour Holbein for transparency. They have very vibrant colours but a lot of them are opaque because of added white. But I have a weird mix of Holbein, so maybe I just haven’t experienced their transparent colours.

                        Sennelier are very transparent, I wish I could recommend a way to make them work for you. But I guess that consistency is very polarising. I happen to love it. :)

                        From what I have seen in the Lord of the Rings films, New Zealand is beautiful. Best of luck with the move. :) As someone who is also moving a long distance soon, I completely understand the quandry of what to buy before moving.

                        #1248448
                        JulesFerrule
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                            Kremer set 1 has lots of granulation (see Parka’s post and color swatches here). I love granulation, but you may not.

                            I have the Schmincke 12 pan set and it’s great, but less granulation than most of the big brands.

                            All brands will have some colors that are more or less transparent and some that are more or less opaque due to the nature of the pigments to a large degree.

                            [FONT=Garamond]“Creativity takes courage.” [FONT=Garamond]
                            ― Henri Matisse

                            #1248445
                            briantmeyer
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                                You should never start with a brand, instead start with pigments and work backwards towards the best option to get those pigments. Even those who love Schminke, those famous artists, will swap out a color or two for other brands like Daniel Smith. Sets are almost never a good choice.

                                The thing is that these are just pigments. The brand isn’t nearly as important as what is in the tube, which is generally pigment with gum arabic and other additives. They do vary how they grind the pigments, so Schminke is preferred by those who want more staining style pigments – “Ultramarine Finest” for example is a lot different than regular ultramarine, so this gives you options, but it’s still Ultramarine.

                                Kremer sells pigments primarily, so you can probably just get a jar of raw pigment and mix it up yourself with gum arabic and glycerin, add honey if you want. ( and other additives ). Might be worth looking into, you could possibly get a lifetime supply. But switching brands to whatever is there locally should not be a big deal, just try to get the same pigments you are used to.

                                To me, Handprint.com seems to only favour US and UK brands. Maybe it’s just a coincidence. I too was surprised that they were lukewarm about Schmincke since so many artists recommend it and it looks so great. They seem to hate certain brands that other artists love. Just goes to show that it’s more than just pigment that makes a watercolour favourable to one artist over the other.

                                The reasoning behind his opinions is referencing test results, and he is using a set process of evaluating the paints which is largely based on scientific methods. Few artist have actually been able to do such in depth side by side testing of paints, so his opinions are from a unique vantage point.

                                It’s really understandable that the english brands will do better ( Winsor Newton kind of developed tube colors and the first use of glycerin which was critical for pan colors ). The other brand that did very well was Daniel Smith, which at the time was owned by the founder, and also had it’s own testing laboratory. I think what his tests indicate is less about brands and more about pigments themselves.

                                He was critical in his review of the Schmincke Line, but individual tests seemed to indicate Schminke did very well for many pigments, but tends to be more finely ground, and like he said it does vary. Some pigments like Indrathrene which vary in quality across all brands were less lightfast than the Daniel Smith version, but when I asked Susan Harris-Tustain about her use of Indrathrene, she said she did her own lightfastness test and also opted for Daniel Smith.

                                Generally I think Schminke is a good choice if the pigment quality isn’t dependent on brand, and where you prefer more finely ground ( and thus less granulating and more often staining versions ) This is why botanical artists and those who use lots of glazes really prefer this brand.

                                #1248457
                                Mblick
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                                    Thank you everyone for your responses.

                                    I have mainly gone to choose a set of either rather than singular pigments from the brands, because I believe that it will be cheaper for myself to purchase one to test out.

                                    I was very glad to hear about the granulation of these. I had forgotten to mention my love for granulation. I do love granulation but, with the right transparency and color I don’t mind if it is not granulating.

                                    My main issue is that with I don’t want to purchase another set to wind up disappointed with the paints; as sennelier has.

                                    I only have a limited amount of money, and I will switch out paints since I do love my Daniel Smith paints.

                                    I will be sure to take another look at the kremer review, I only wish there were more reviews…

                                    Thank you everyone

                                    "I put my heart and soul into my work, and I have lost my mind in the process." -Vincent Van Gogh
                                    #1248446
                                    briantmeyer
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                                        Sounds like you are much like me, cost is critical. The problem is sets don’t provide real value, rather they get you to buy colors you won’t all use.

                                        You can choose individual pans, and you only need to get 6-9 colors, a 12 color set is a lot, especially when the choices in that set aren’t exactly what you need. Handprint recommends a set of 7 colors for beginners, others on the forum have others they recommend. You ONLY need 3 colors to mix all the colors possible, which really saves a lot of money.

                                        Further a pan is 3-6 mL in size ( for half and full ), while a tube is 15mL, making your own pans is a lot cheaper. Even cheaper is just buying pigment and making your own paint – and that is Kremers primary business.

                                        I would suggest figuring out the pigments you want, then go and buy some from Schminke, others from Kremer, and others from Daniel Smith. Student grade is just fine too, especially for things like burnt sienna ( which is series 1 usually ) if from a better line of paint like Van Gogh or Cotman. If you are not sure. I would however just get less tubes of paint, and get the better stuff.

                                        You are in New Zealand, another artist is in New Zealand named Susan Harris Tustain. She recommends her own workshop supplies[/url]. Again the set she recommends includes colors you should not get like alizarin crimson, you are much better off getting individual colors as tubes than any set. Even she buys other brands like Daniel Smith instead of some of these more fugitive colors. But it does list Parker Art Supplies as being in New Zealand and Australia, and their prices for Daniel Smith don’t seem too expensive. Probably a good starting point for you.

                                        ( Just looking at parkers australian website, a series 1 tube I paid $12 USD for, is being sold for about $19 in australian dollars, which is about $15 in USD, not sure how to see what that companies prices are in New Zealand, but it seems well worth it if you strongly prefer this brand. )

                                        There is also an Australian brand of watercolors you should look at as well.

                                        #1248442
                                        artsy_lissa
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                                            Hi OP,

                                            -I am not for sure where you’re currently located, as you mention missing the New Zealand view… I also don’t know where you’re locating to.

                                            -You seem to have dabbled in some brands already. I hear that you don’t care for sticky paints with a high honey content… Aside from that; and given what paints you have currently on-hand, what are you missing that you’re not able to do functionally with the paints you have?

                                            -When you say ‘palette’, is it that you’re wanting to build a set of ‘travel’ paints?

                                            Regards :wave:

                                            Colour is my day-long obsession, joy and torment. ~ Claude Monet[/SIZE]
                                            [/SIZE]

                                            #1248441
                                            Neeman
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                                                Kremer are superb if you are an advanced watercolorist, and you will not be transporting them for plein air as some of the pans run
                                                They are specialized paints not your average paints like Schmincke
                                                I love them

                                                I have not used Schmincke
                                                But you cannot go wrong with Schmincke as they are paints with a solid reputation

                                                #1248455
                                                Terry 904
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                                                    Both Char and Brian are giving you the very best advice in all they have said. Study your pigment choices, and get the best colours individually from whatever brand is offering the best formulation and characteristics that suit your work, for that particular colour. Sets are a poor and uneducated choice. As for brands, not everything in their line is great, some colours are good, and some not so good. Which is why one studies the pigments, then chooses from various brands.

                                                    As for Kremer, I will never, ever, ever, ever, transact with them again.

                                                    I get all of my art stuff online now, am spoiled for choice, and paying 50 to 90% less for it than I used to by shopping locally.

                                                    Cost wise, your best options in this part of the world are Holbein, Maimeri Blu, Daler Rowney, M Graham, Art Spectrum.

                                                    Half as dear again, to twice the price are Rembrandt, Schminke, Daniel Smith.

                                                    All of these are great brands with some colour formulations that are very, very good, and some that are not so good, in addition one’s choices are based on what precisely suits ones personal preferences, as well as ones work best. The only way to get good gear is to know what you are about, and that takes study. If you ask others, only a small proportion of the responses will be from people who know what they are talking about, but in every case they will tell you what suits them, not you.

                                                    Terry

                                                    #1248450
                                                    aprilquilts
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                                                        Terry, are you not dealing with Kremer because of the pigments themselves or some problem with the company. I’m considering them as well.

                                                        #1248456
                                                        Terry 904
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                                                            I recently bought a 4 row 28 full pan palette from Kremer.

                                                            Prior to purchase I made a product enquiry, essentially what is it please? is this a steel palette, and are the mixing surfaces proper vitrious enamelled, or merely painted?

                                                            The response email I received from Roger Carmona was, to quote, ” this aluminium palette is enamelled.

                                                            I thought terrific, and based my purchase decision solely on this response.

                                                            When I received the palette, I found it to be a flimsy pressed steel, warped and shoddily made, with sharp raw edges and wonky hinges. No part of it was aluminium, nor was it enamelled, but merely painted, and chipped paint at that.

                                                            When I contacted Roger Carmona with my complaint, including a copy of the email he sent me prior to purchase, he sent me pages and pages of very aggressive obfuscation in response, never once addressing the issue of his description of the box prior to purchase.

                                                            Finally, I was refunded, after I began an action in consumer law relative to misleading and deceptive conduct, but not before a very great deal of very unpleasant correspondence. The trouble far, far outweighed the cost of course, but I don’t like people getting away with that sort of thing.

                                                            Terry

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