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Old 06-04-2019, 12:46 PM
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Pinguino Pinguino is offline
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Re: yellow with no green

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Old 06-05-2019, 03:10 AM
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Re: yellow with no green

David, I guess your point is that the sky colors in that original (left side) photo are so grey (especially the greens) that the colors you get from increasing saturation so much are inordinate compared to the original.
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Old 06-05-2019, 12:10 PM
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Re: yellow with no green

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick1
David, I guess your point is that the sky colors in that original (left side) photo are so grey (especially the greens) that the colors you get from increasing saturation so much are inordinate compared to the original.
Actually, I (who took the picture) noticed the colors in real life. The left photo is grayer than as seen live, probably because the old iPod Touch v4 camera was not really designed for that light range or resolution.

Last edited by Pinguino : 06-05-2019 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 06-05-2019, 10:07 PM
davidbriggs davidbriggs is offline
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Re: yellow with no green

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick1
David, I guess your point is that the sky colors in that original (left side) photo are so grey (especially the greens) that the colors you get from increasing saturation so much are inordinate compared to the original.

Yes, I thought it showed both the colour relationships in the original photo and the magnitude of the exaggeration of chroma nicely.
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Old 06-06-2019, 09:32 AM
ntl ntl is offline
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Re: yellow with no green

I want to thank you all for this conversation. I am new to all of it and trying to understand and apply it.

As an aside, David, I found your website a few years ago and lost it...I think I recognized the importance of it then, but was not ready for that information. I don't know if I am now, but I am grateful it is in my awareness. Thanks.
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Old 06-07-2019, 06:00 PM
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WFMartin WFMartin is offline
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Re: yellow with no green

A couple of interesting things to note are the following:

The color, Yellow, is the only primary that exhibits the two most important properties of a primary color--it plots very near the actual "spoke" of the color wheel that represents the hue, Yellow. Also, it plots very near the outer ring of the color wheel, making it a very high chroma color (less gray). That seems to be quite traditional for primary Yellow pigments, in paint, printer's inks, dyes, and many other mediums.

The other primary colors, Cyan, and Magenta, don't even come close to approximating the necessary properties of being a primary color, that Yellow does. For some reason, Yellow has been much more capable of achieving the title of "primary color", in terms of the color wheel. That doesn't mean that the Cyan, and Magenta primary colors aren't capable of being used in theory for calculations--it just means that those precise pigments have not been invented, or discovered yet.

As any primary color is darkened, as with Black, it begins to take on the color of its "other" color. Each primary color, in order to be a true primary color reflects not one, but TWO of the primary colors of light, Red, Green, and Blue.

Yellow reflects equal amounts of both Green and Red light.
Magenta reflects equal amounts of both Red, and Blue light.
Cyan reflects equal amounts of both Blue and Green light.

As Yellow is darkened by adding a "darkening agent" (it doesn't even need to be Black), it begins to exhibit its "other color", in other words, Green.

It is interesting to note that when you have a primary Yellow on your palette such as Cadmium Yellow Light, nearly any other dark color on your palette will create a Green, or at least a Green-ish color, when mixed with it.

I used to teach a class in oil painting at a local rec. center. I only recommended that they purchase a very limited palette of colors, and Green was not one of them. Since most of our subjects were landscapes, my students would often ask how to make Greens with the available colors.

Early on, during the first evening of class, I would ask my students to take Cadmium Yellow Light, and mix it with every other color on their palette.

Except for Cadmium Red, each of the colors on their palette would create either Green, or Greenish color when mixed with the Cad Yellow Light.

Those other colors were Ivory Black, Ultramarine Blue, and Burnt Umber.

It's actually difficult NOT to create Green, when you have a primary Yellow, such as Cadmium Yellow Light on your palette.
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Old 06-07-2019, 06:28 PM
DaveCrow DaveCrow is offline
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Re: yellow with no green

I have noticed that yellow seems to have one of the narrowest ranges of any color within which it is still recognized as itself. It doesn't take much to shift a yellowish color to being identified as "greenish" or "orangey".

You can shift a "red" pretty far and people will still call it "red", likewise for blue, green, or purple. But with yellow, just a little bit of change and it's no longer really "yellow" to people.

I don't know if this is a property of light, pigment, or psychology.
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Old 06-07-2019, 07:35 PM
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WFMartin WFMartin is offline
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Re: yellow with no green

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveCrow
I have noticed that yellow seems to have one of the narrowest ranges of any color within which it is still recognized as itself. It doesn't take much to shift a yellowish color to being identified as "greenish" or "orangey".

You can shift a "red" pretty far and people will still call it "red", likewise for blue, green, or purple. But with yellow, just a little bit of change and it's no longer really "yellow" to people.

I don't know if this is a property of light, pigment, or psychology.

Yeah.....I believe it is a bit of psychology, as well as semantics (nomenclature).
We tend to call everything from a Reddish Orange to Magenta, "Red". and, we call colors "Blue" that are all over the place on the color wheel. Every "Blue" from Cyan "Thalo Blue", to Ultramarine Blue, are called "Blue". Interestingly, all those "Blues" have a greater bias toward Cyan, than actually being true, scientific, "Blue".

Realize that Magenta and Cyan are no more "Red", and "Blue" than Yellow is. Each one is a primary color, or close as one can get to them. Yet we label Cyan, and Magenta as "Blue", and "Red".

Yes, I agree, we do seem to tend to tighten up our visual tolerance of "Yellow", accepting only those Yellows that are closer to being a "true Yellow", than with the other primary colors.
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Last edited by WFMartin : 06-07-2019 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 06-08-2019, 06:19 AM
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Re: yellow with no green

An interesting revelation came to me when I really dug into the idea of color perception many years ago. The short of it is simply that light does not come in only 3 colors (red, blue, green), but in fact comes in a wide range that is interpreted by our brain and the cones in our eyes.

So not to confuse the idea of color for anyone new, but RGB systems are but one system used for color representation and does have limits. Many pigments exhibit wavelength reflections that are quite difficult to capture by photograph or other reproduction methods. The cones in our eyes actually each respond to a range of wavelengths, these overlaps have color associations that are sometimes labeled as “red, green, and blue” respectively, but actually peak in wavelengths associated with colors we would not think of as red, green, and blue actually. It would be more accurate to think of the cones as short, medium, and long wavelength detectors. Some people are even gifted with an extra vision cone (possibly my wife), and see a wider range of yellow and orange colors.

As noted above though, yellow pigments tend to have a large enough reflectance of wavelengths that our brain associates with the color green, thus mixes with most colors that are darker in value to produce a green color. Personally, I consider the “primary” yellow pigments to be quite green leaning, and generally reach for a slightly more orange leaning yellow for most of my work (just my tastes).
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:43 PM
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Pinguino Pinguino is offline
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Re: yellow with no green

So there I was, having a drink and watching the Warriors vs. Raptors game 5, at a place on the municipal wharf in Santa Cruz. That point of land in the distance (less than a mile away) overlooks "Steamer Lane," a famous surfing spot. Sunset along the California coast was late in the game. The sun, now just below the horizon, set off-camera to the right.

I noticed the greenish band of sky, here presented for your viewing pleasure. It is most noticeable just to the right of the model ship's headsails. Also, just left of the photo center, the color transition just above the lowermost distant cloud is a very light gray, with a very slight green bias.

This is not merely a matter of the camera and software. I see the color in real life, which is why I bothered to take this photo.

Most folks might not notice the green (or cyan, depending on circumstances), as it is very bright and nearly gray. My point is that the transition from orange to blue goes via yellow and green, rather than via purple. Might be different under different atmospheric conditions.


Last edited by Pinguino : 06-11-2019 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:16 PM
davidbriggs davidbriggs is offline
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Re: yellow with no green

Pinguino, this looks like the sequence of colours typical of edge spectra, such as you see when a broad beam of light passes through a prism, or when you view a white band on a black background through a prism. On one side you go from violet to blue to blue-green to white as you add more and more of the longer wavelengths, while on the other you go from red to orange to yellow to white as you add more and more of the shorter wavelengths. The complete sequence if you see it is violet/blue/blue-green/white/yellow/orange/red.
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:04 PM
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Re: yellow with no green

David, I have no doubt that you are correct.
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