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  #166   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-05-2007, 08:32 AM
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davidpyle davidpyle is offline
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Re: Meet & Greet the F+W Publications Family

Dear Jack,

In answer to your question, I'm 're-printing', below, a post offered earlier addressing our hopes and desires for WetCanvas. Before jumping in to that, however, it's worth noting that WetCanvas has never been a non-profit. It needs (and has always needed) to generate money to pay the bills for server space, maintenance and all other stuff that goes into this kind of enterprise. And it's our responsibility to manage how that happens in a way that's responsible and to ensure that the forum continues to meet the needs of the community. I should also state that we won't charge for membership.

I hope this is helpful...

There are three (at least) significant reasons that we feel strongly about adding WetCanvas! to our family.

The first is because we believe that publishing is moving (who am I kidding - HAS moved) away from the old edit+print/sell ads/distribution model. Instead, we believe that the new world order is all about communities. And this web-based community is so perfectly aligned with our current book and magazine readers/customers, that we'd have been nuts or myopic or both to at least not look at this collaboration. I should note that, in this new world order, the best way to make a business work as part of a web-based community is to support open communication exchange, back and forth. I'm sure that we'll learn just as much from this community as we'll be able to offer.

Is there a revenue reason for doing this? Of course. After all, there is the advertising piece of the picture. (It's worth repeating at this point that we will NOT be charging for membership on WC!)

And then there's reason two for this move: this is an incredibly exciting time to be part of the media business. There are a number of new offerings that we'd like to develop, some of which are mentioned in the survey that many of you have taken - things like video and webinars and other really cool stuff that have NEVER been possible before but are sure possible today. Adding WC! to our family means that we can develop those things and deliver/offer them immediately to the community, all in one fell swoop.

The third reason is more difficult to pin down but, perhaps, the most powerful of all. Our ultimate goal is, quite simply, to grow the art community. Part of that is motivated by business... if more people make art, the larger the potential market for our products. But it's more fundamental than that. We believe - and part of this is, admittedly, shaded by my own personal agenda - that our world can't help but be bettered by more and more people doing artistic and expressive stuff.

This community is loaded with people who cite WC! as the reason that their art has grown or even that they wouldn't be making art at all if it weren't for this forum. It's for that reason that we believe a healthy, dynamic and free-flowing WetCanvas! is a fabulous foundation on which to make new artists (or photographers or digital artists or crafters or whatever) and to help existing artists to better their skills and find new layers of expressive reward and pleasure.

Thanks for asking a great question.

Best,
David
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Old 11-05-2007, 12:29 PM
number19 number19 is offline
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Re: Meet & Greet the F+W Publications Family

Thank you for your reply David. I'm not a business person so admittedly my imagination is somewhat limited when it comes to the possibilities offered by the internet. It certainly facilitates all commerce it seems intellectual, artistic, business, etc.. So I'm vague on just what your company will be paid for. I generally understand it as "advertising" or "promotion". I am a little concerned that it will manifest in sort of undetectable ways to the normal user - that some of the promotion will come in under the radar so to speak. Can you give some examples of how your client's products will be advertised or promoted?

Finally David, I have valued WC as a free forum with a free exchange of ideas. There have been 2 threads closed by an administrator in the "OIL Painting" forum within the last few days. They both concerned criticisms of a new "Partner" of WC. I know the forums have rules, but the criticisms I saw in the threads that were closed did not appear to me to violate the existing rules. The threads almost certainly would have been allowed to continue in the past. You see, I'm sure, the perception problem ( at the least ) that this creates. A controversial producer or company is challenged as to track record . That person or company happens to be a new "Partner" . Those threads are cut off, and that too closely following announcements about a change in the ownership of WC. Please take a look at those threads Dave. Thanks, Jack

Last edited by number19 : 11-05-2007 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 11-05-2007, 02:19 PM
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nicanfhilidh nicanfhilidh is offline
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Re: Meet & Greet the F+W Publications Family

Quote:
Originally Posted by number19

Finally David, I have valued WC as a free forum with a free exchange of ideas. There have been 2 threads closed by an administrator in the "OIL Painting" forum within the last few days. They both concerned criticisms of a new "Partner" of WC. I know the forums have rules, but the criticisms I saw in the threads that were closed did not appear to me to violate the existing rules. The threads almost certainly would have been allowed to continue in the past.


This is the thing. Threads attacking Rob Howard and his businesses, Studio Products and Art Boot Camp, have indeed been allowed to continue on Wet Canvas for years. Not only allowed to continue, but were actively encouraged and participated in by certain moderators and guides, and anyone daring to speak up with a positive word about the man and his products was shouted down. Rob Howard is the only art supply manufacturer and seller I know of who has received this particular kind of "special treatment" on Wet Canvas. When other businesses, such as Dick Blick for instance, are criticized, swift movements are made to shut down the conversation and the complainer is told to take it to the business.

I, for one, will be delighted to see professional, objective, consistent moderation practices finally be introduced to this forum as a result of a respected publishing company taking the helm. If Art Boot Camp is a paid advertiser on the site, then there is no reason why Art Boot Camp should not be accorded the same respect as other paid advertisers. If the policy is going to continue to be "Rob Howard is evil on a stick, Anyone who likes his products is brainwashed, and Everyone is encouraged to pile on him and his businesses all the time", then this free-for-all needs to extend to all Wet Canvas advertisers.
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Last edited by nicanfhilidh : 11-05-2007 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 11-05-2007, 03:06 PM
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kiergaard kiergaard is offline
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Re: Meet & Greet the F+W Publications Family

excellent post, Dorothy.
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Old 11-05-2007, 04:22 PM
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Karyn Karyn is offline
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Re: Meet & Greet the F+W Publications Family

Thank you for the feedback, and for wanting F+W to share and understanding of the current situation about our Partners.

Quote:
It certainly facilitates all commerce it seems intellectual, artistic, business, etc.. So I'm vague on just what your company will be paid for. I generally understand it as "advertising" or "promotion". I am a little concerned that it will manifest in sort of undetectable ways to the normal user - that some of the promotion will come in under the radar so to speak. Can you give some examples of how your client's products will be advertised or promoted?

F+W is paid by advertisers so that they can have banner and skyscraper ads on the WC! site. Sometimes, they will also have a partner forum if they so choose, with the benefits of having press releases on the site. Other advertisers will want to have ads in the eNewsletter that I send out. Does this answer your questions?

About the closed threads in the Oil Painting Forum. . . . As F+W is new to managing and maintaining this site, I cannot speak to whether other Partners have been treated in similar ways. I can however, say that we do not encourage members to hash out their complaints about a Partner in the public forums. It is best to contact the Partner directly. These threads were closed for that purpose. We really want to maintain an atmosphere that is pleasant, no matter what infractions someone may or may not have caused in the past.

F+W wants to bring on Partners that will benefit the site, bringing education and experience into this forum. The Partners offer the tools we use as artists and we want to honor and respect them like we would other members.

Lastly, we really need to let go of this topic in this thread. This thread is about greeting the staff of F+W, it is not a place to discuss the current partners. I hope that I have answered your questions, though. If this is still a hot topic that you need to discuss or vent, please PM Karyn. We can find a more suitable place for this topic.

Regards,
Karyn & David (davidpyle)
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Old 11-05-2007, 05:16 PM
number19 number19 is offline
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Re: Meet & Greet the F+W Publications Family

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karyn


I can however, say that we do not encourage members to hash out their complaints about a Partner in the public forums. .........


Lastly, we really need to let go of this topic in this thread.

Regards,
Karyn & David (davidpyle)

Karyn, Unfortunately those two comments tell me more than I wanted to know (or hoped to learn) about the changes in WC under the new ownership/management. How can the "Oil Painting" forum be open and free, as it used to be, if members cannot "hash out complaints about a Partner" ? Can we then only discuss such complaints publicly ( isn't being public integral to the discussion forums?) regarding the products and customer service of non - Partners?

Your saying "we really need to let go of this thread" ,aside from it's tone, is another ( 3 and counting ) cutting off of discussion . It's the third I've witnessed in just the last few days. That's more than I remember seeing in the last two years at WC.

As a final thought do you expect to supervise the sarcasm of, and personal attacks made by Partners as well? If so I suggest you look at some recent posts in "Oil Painting". It's all pretty disappointing frankly, Jack
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Old 11-05-2007, 08:42 PM
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kordelia kordelia is offline
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Re: Meet & Greet the F+W Publications Family

Gee, bubblehead that I am , when Re: Meet & Greet the F+W Publications Familyshows up in my email, i kinda thought someone was meeting and greeting the new members of the family.... .... i got enough family squabbles, guys, i dont need it here....

Hi, i'm Kordelia, and i love WC! and hope you will too.
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Old 11-06-2007, 03:10 AM
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Re: Meet & Greet the F+W Publications Family

Wetcanvas has grown from small beginnings to an enormous site with over 120,000 members and six million posts. From the start it has been supported by sponsorship and member contributions.

I for one am grateful for the people who have taken this task on and have contributed for some years.

Doug
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Old 11-06-2007, 04:29 AM
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Re: Meet & Greet the F+W Publications Family

Ditto to what Kordelia and Doug have said.

I think F & W will make fine sponsors of this wonderful Website for Artists. They've been working for and with artists for years and this is a logical extension of their mission.

Sylvia
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Old 11-06-2007, 08:43 AM
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Re: Meet & Greet the F+W Publications Family

Quote:
Originally Posted by number19
Karyn, Unfortunately those two comments tell me more than I wanted to know (or hoped to learn) about the changes in WC under the new ownership/management. How can the "Oil Painting" forum be open and free, as it used to be..........

Open and free as it used to be? I remember a disagreement I had with one of the in crowd, which resulted in being told by a moderator: Enough! and that my responses were inappropriate, and that I was being placed on notice that any further disruption of this sort may result in a strike placed against me at the very minimum. For a simple disagreement! The whole event was interesting to me, as I was afforded the firsthand experience of being baited along by another individual, who was a member of the management team. I had seen this before numerous times, against people like Rob Howard, Timothy Tyler, and many others, but never actually knew what it felt like. I am not trying to be contentious, but your perception of how things used to run is vastly different than mine. A good example is in a recent thread, Rob Howard was referred to as a "dork," by a moderator, and the thread was simply closed, but this moderator was not scolded by any of the old guard, in a manner that I have seen on many occasions. On numerous occasions, over the past 8 years, I have ranted to my wife, that they were removing all of the great artists. She simply resonded that the greats are passionate people. By the way, she does have a genious I.Q.

I for one am very glad that this site has been purchased, and is being run by F&W, and that they have been willing to overlook past "infractions, " if they could even be called that, by folks such as Rob Howard.

I for one see the many of the changes presently occurring on this site, to be acts of mercy, and a spirit of forgiveness, that I have not previously seen. In my opinion, the atmosphere here has changed for the better, and I believe that it can only get better. I am also grateful to all of the partners, who contribute to make this site what it is, and what it will be.

Respecfully,

Jim Trankina
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Old 11-06-2007, 09:11 AM
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M.A. M.A. is offline
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Re: Meet & Greet the F+W Publications Family

Quote:
Originally Posted by Termini.
Open and free as it used to be? I remember a disagreement I had with one of the in crowd, which resulted in being told by a moderator: Enough! and that my responses were inappropriate, and that I was being placed on notice that any further disruption of this sort may result in a strike placed against me at the very minimum. For a simple disagreement! The whole event was interesting to me, as I was afforded the firsthand experience of being baited along by another individual, who was a member of the management team. I had seen this before numerous times, against people like Rob Howard, Timothy Tyler, and many others, but never actually knew what it felt like. I am not trying to be contentious, but your perception of how things used to run is vastly different than mine. A good example is in a recent thread, Rob Howard was referred to as a "dork," by a moderator, and the thread was simply closed, but this moderator was not scolded by any of the old guard, in a manner that I have seen on many occasions. On numerous occasions, over the past 8 years, I have ranted to my wife, that they were removing all of the great artists. She simply resonded that the greats are passionate people. By the way, she does have a genious I.Q.

I for one am very glad that this site has been purchased, and is being run by F&W, and that they have been willing to overlook past "infractions, " if they could even be called that, by folks such as Rob Howard.

I for one see the many of the changes presently occurring on this site, to be acts of mercy, and a spirit of forgiveness, that I have not previously seen. In my opinion, the atmosphere here has changed for the better, and I believe that it can only get better. I am also grateful to all of the partners, who contribute to make this site what it is, and what it will be.

Respecfully,

Jim Trankina

I have to second what Jim says here. I think how some people have ostracized others here in the past has been a real disservice to some members who genuinely want to improve thier skills. I have traveled to two boot camps and studied with Rob and he is a fantastic instructor. He has been an excellent mentor for me and I am very happy to have found him.

Congratulations and best wishes to F+W.
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Old 11-06-2007, 12:01 PM
number19 number19 is offline
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Re: Meet & Greet the F+W Publications Family

Yeah right..... Well good luck to us all then.
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