Home Forums The Learning Center Color Theory and Mixing Painting from an IPad image

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  • #477182
    TomMather
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        So, we had a substitute teacher in the oil painting class I’ve been taking, and he took exception to me painting from an iPad image. It was a photo that I had taken, composed and cropped. Instead he recommended that I print out the image and work from that. His argument, as much as I could understand it, was that an iPad image was “subtractive” whereas a painting was “additive” — or vice versa.

        I didn’t really understand the point he was trying to make. Is this really a thing, addictive or subtractive coloration?

        I’ve been painting from iPad images for several years, and I personally feel that it has helped my painting improve. I can compose and crop the images as well as adjust the lighting. The images on my iPad are larger than most photo prints, and colors seem much truer to life.

        #870014
        WFMartin
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            So, we had a substitute teacher in the oil painting class I’ve been taking, and he took exception to me painting from an iPad image. It was a photo that I had taken, composed and cropped. Instead he recommended that I print out the image and work from that. His argument, as much as I could understand it, was that an iPad image was “subtractive” whereas a painting was “additive” — or vice versa.

            I didn’t really understand the point he was trying to make. Is this really a thing, addictive or subtractive coloration?

            I’ve been painting from iPad images for several years, and I personally feel that it has helped my painting improve. I can compose and crop the images as well as adjust the lighting. The images on my iPad are larger than most photo prints, and colors seem much truer to life.

            The colors of images on any computer, or TV screen are created by the additive process, whereas a hardcopy of a reflective photograph is created much as an oil painting, or printed reproduction, and the process is subtractive.

            However, my friend, color is color, is color…….It makes very little difference to the human eye how the color, Yellow is created (as an example) as viewed as a reference image. If you wish to view your subject as an additive color subject on a screen (using Red, Green, Blue dots, or stripes of light), or if you would rather view your subject on a color photograph (using Cyan, Magenta, and Yellow, instead) truly makes very little difference.

            However, your instructor probably realizes that by using a color photo as your reference for oil painting, you stand a profoundly increased chance of creating the actual colors of it with paint (which is also pigment), than you ever would by using an image on a screen that is created with colors of light. The gamut (total possible range) of colors that can be created with light (image on a screen) is well beyond that which can be created using only an image from a printed reproduction (color photo).

            Basically, it is a heck of a lot easier to match each and every color with paint mixtures when working from a color photograph than it would be attempting to match colors with paint that are viewed on a computer screen.

            While you can always smear some of your paint mixture upon the surface of a photograph to check how well you have matched the color, attempting to do the same with an image composed of light on a computer screen is next to impossible. While you may think that you have, indeed, “matched” the colors that are visible on the screen, I would challenge you to demonstrate to yourself, or to anyone else, proof that you have matched those colors. Pretty difficult to do so.

            That is the point your instructor is trying to instill in you, I’m sure. As much as I (former Photoshop worker) may enjoy viewing color subjects on a screen, I could not have taught oil paint color mixing to my oil painting students by using an image created by the additive process, such as those on computer screens. It represents a much greater gamut of colors than that which is capable of being created with colors of oil paint.

            I know of some painters who do use images from computers as references, but their chances of actually MATCHING every color that exists on that screen is very poor. They may THINK they have “matched” them with paint, but I seriously doubt it. However, I can nearly guarantee you that you can match, with oil paint, every color that you will encounter on a color photograph.:) :)

            wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
            https://williamfmartin.blogspot.com

            #870024
            bongo
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                His argument, as much as I could understand it, was that an iPad image was “subtractive” whereas a painting was “additive” — or vice versa.

                what Martin said. Also in PS you can convert the image to CYMK – which changes the colors to those that can be printed.

                http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/18-Sep-2019/1999899-sigsmall.jpg
                STUDIOBONGO

                #870029
                TomMather
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                    Thanks, Bill. That makes sense. However, when you print a photo, the colors are often a poor or approximate representation of the photo. Of course, a photo is also an approximation of the colors in real life. It seems to me that an iPad image captures better the myriad of color variations than a printed photo. It thus might be easier to paint from a print than an iPad but not necessarily truer to life.

                    #870015
                    WFMartin
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                        Thanks, Bill. That makes sense. However, when you print a photo, the colors are often a poor or approximate representation of the photo. Of course, a photo is also an approximation of the colors in real life. It seems to me that an iPad image captures better the myriad of color variations than a printed photo. It thus might be easier to paint from a print than an iPad but not necessarily truer to life.

                        That which you suggest is correct, in my opinion. Any image that is created with colors of light (such as neon lights, the sky, the sun, etc.) , rather than with colors of pigment, is more difficult to actually match with paint pigments. Such colors would show up more accurately on a screen, but would still be quite impossible to actually reproduce with paint. What’s more, the value range of the “light-created image” would be enormous, compared to that of the colored photo, and, quite literally impossible to ever match with paint.

                        Realize that brilliant lights in any real scene are always direct sources of light (sun, sky, neon, etc.), while anything you paint is, at best a reflection of the light that is available at that moment. It is a simple law of physics that any light that comes off of a reflective surface is always less than that of the original light source. A spectral light in a painting is always less bright than that same spectral light that emanates from the real subject.

                        While the iPad image may actually exhibit “more colors”, or “more correct colors”, making it more true to life, the photo would be much easier from which to paint, although, as you mention, the photo would not be as true to life.:thumbsup:

                        As I mentioned, the problem with using an image composed of light (additive process) is that you can experience great difficulty when attempting to match it with a pigmented medium, such as oil paint.

                        wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
                        https://williamfmartin.blogspot.com

                        #870031
                        Ted B.
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                            Unless you can expense the cost of the photo paper and ink as a professional artist, I’d forgo printing it whenever possible.

                            Even with recent home/office inkjet printers being much better than they used to be, the image quality between regular paper and “photo” paper is striking, …so is the cost-difference. And an 8×10 image at photo resolution burns through a phenomenal amount of expensive inkjet ink. Using bond paper the image suffers badly, and you still use lots of expensive ink.

                            In my own architectural practice, I only output “color” when I’m making a .pdf-file to email a client or subcontractor where they’ll look at the image digitally.

                            If I need a paper copy for composition, but not for color rendition or color-matching, I use bond paper and every ink-saving setting feature in “draft mode”. Typicaly I use the grayscale setting so I only use black ink. On my printer if you just use the black-and-white mode it still prints using all four cartridges “…for a more vibrant black“. Thank you printer engineers (and ink marketing department), but “no thanks”.

                            Radical Fundemunsellist

                            #870018

                            So, we had a substitute teacher in the oil painting class I’ve been taking, and he took exception to me painting from an iPad image. It was a photo that I had taken, composed and cropped. Instead he recommended that I print out the image and work from that. His argument, as much as I could understand it, was that an iPad image was “subtractive” whereas a painting was “additive” — or vice versa.

                            I didn’t really understand the point he was trying to make. Is this really a thing, addictive or subtractive coloration?

                            I’ve been painting from iPad images for several years, and I personally feel that it has helped my painting improve. I can compose and crop the images as well as adjust the lighting. The images on my iPad are larger than most photo prints, and colors seem much truer to life.

                            That is pure BUL****.

                            How the resulting color is achieved is meaningless. What you see is ALWAYS light that get into your eyes. We cannot EVER see anything in a subtractive way. Color theory uses the subtractive model to explain how the lightwaves and energy bands are affected in the reflection before they start travelign to your eyes… after that point.. it is ONLY POTHONS! The Photons do not care if they came from paint or from a star nuclear core! They behave exaclty the same!

                            I would take that opportunity to learn that you probably should look for another teacher.. this one does not even know how our vision works.

                            "no no! You are doing it all wrong, in the internet we are supposed to be stubborn, inflexible and arrogant. One cannot simply be suddenly reasonable and reflexive in the internet, that breaks years of internet tradition as a medium of anger, arrogance, bigotry and self entitlement. Damm these internet newcomers being nice to to others!!!"

                            "If brute force does not solve your problem, then you are not using enough!"

                            #870013
                            Patrick1
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                                The question of “what kind of reference source” to paint from (photos/printouts, digital displays, and real life), and the differences between them, is huge. Each has its advantages & disadvantages. Value range will possibly be the biggest difference you’ll encounter, at least as far as color goes. You’ll do best at what you’re most used to, but try all 3 to become versatile. Some artists can get similarly good results from all 3 (painted from a photo but looks like it was done plein air). A fourth source – your imagination – should not be overlooked if you want to paint purely from your heart.

                                #870019

                                The question of “what kind of reference source” to paint from (photos/printouts, digital displays, and real life), and the differences between them, is huge. Each has its advantages & disadvantages. Value range will possibly be the biggest difference you’ll encounter, at least as far as color goes. You’ll do best at what you’re most used to, but try all 3 to become versatile. Some artists can get similarly good results from all 3 (painted from a photo but looks like it was done plein air). A fourth source – your imagination – should not be overlooked if you want to paint purely from your heart.

                                That is all true, but the reason is not because of subtractive vs aditive as his teacher seems to think. It is because in plein air you are subject to the widest range of colors possible, while in other mediums you are limited to what the pigments of LEDs can inprint.

                                "no no! You are doing it all wrong, in the internet we are supposed to be stubborn, inflexible and arrogant. One cannot simply be suddenly reasonable and reflexive in the internet, that breaks years of internet tradition as a medium of anger, arrogance, bigotry and self entitlement. Damm these internet newcomers being nice to to others!!!"

                                "If brute force does not solve your problem, then you are not using enough!"

                                #870025
                                bongo
                                Default

                                    in plein air you are subject to the widest range of colors possible, while in other mediums you are limited to what the pigments of LEDs can inprint.

                                    Is that true? I would think colors on a computer screen could produce more colors than exist in nature. Certainly it can put an amount and variety of colors into one image that you would never see in one place in nature.

                                    http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/18-Sep-2019/1999899-sigsmall.jpg
                                    STUDIOBONGO

                                    #870016
                                    WFMartin
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                                        Is that true? I would think colors on a computer screen could produce more colors than exist in nature. Certainly it can put an amount and variety of colors into one image that you would never see in one place in nature.

                                        That’s true, from my experience. And, that’s the main reason that the practice of using a reference image on a computer screen is very questionable.

                                        Oh, of course it can be done; however, you need to give up the possibility of actually matching the colors on the screen with colors of paint.:)

                                        wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
                                        https://williamfmartin.blogspot.com

                                        #870028
                                        Richard P
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                                            I’ve done both. The problem with matching against a screen is one of lighting. Simply put if you put the TV on at night with no lights on you can see the picture perfectly, but everything else around you is too dark to see properly. Therefore you can see the problem with trying to mix paint, if you put paint on the screen the light around you influences what colour and value it looks like.

                                            If you ensure consistent lighting you can match the values, but some colours will be too chromatic to reach. I have a five swatch greyscale on the screen and a printed off version and I adjust a large natural daylight lamp so that the swatches match when held against each other (black always prints off too light compared to the screen).

                                            I then match when the lighting is correct and it works for me.

                                            Hope that helps.

                                            Richard

                                            #870030
                                            TomMather
                                            Default

                                                I feel that I can match colors well from an iPad image, often better than plein air because the view is fixed rather than continually changing from the sun moving or being obscured by clouds. I focus the most on values, however, because if you get those right the colors aren’t as important. Photo prints to me are inferior to computer screen images in color trueness as well as values because the computer images can be edited for lighting.

                                                #870033
                                                DK4242
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                                                    I follow Michael James Smith’s YouTube channel, he paints exclusively with a tablet for his reference photo. You’ll often see him compare a mixed color to his tablet reference. It’s still just a reference regardless whether it’s a photo, a magazine clipping, tablet, etc. You ultimately decide the colors you use and your value range.

                                                    #870026
                                                    bongo
                                                    Default

                                                        Oh, of course it can be done; however, you need to give up the possibility of actually matching the colors on the screen with colors of paint.:)

                                                        Photoshop has CYMK mode – that changes the colors to those that a printer can handle – So if you use CYMK mode in PS then the colors on screen should match the colors on a print made from that file – depending on WHICH paper, WHICH printer WHICH inks you use to make the print.

                                                        Can you match in paint the colors produced from an inkjet printer? If so then you should be able to match the colors in cymk mode on a screen.

                                                        So imo it is a question of the procedure – which one is easier to accomplish – holding a dab of paint on palette knife(or piece of paper) up to the screen – or laying down a strip of paint next to the color on a print.

                                                        http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/18-Sep-2019/1999899-sigsmall.jpg
                                                        STUDIOBONGO

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