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Old 11-18-2009, 11:48 AM
pastelli pastelli is offline
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Underpainting pigments/brushes on wallis paper

I need advise on what type of paint/pigment to use for underpainting on Wallis pastel paper - which is the most intense without filling up the tooth of her paper? Diluted with water? Also, what type of brush do you suggest to apply it and how do you hold the paper?
I used to use Golden Airbrush Colors, which I really liked. Then I tried Createx Colors, which I tried Createx Pure Pigments (which I think is pure pigment in water, but not really mixed in well to cover - it seems to go on with small spots of color-when I called Createx, they told me that the Pure Pigments (in their present form right out of the bottle) were not as stable as their airbrush colors in I probably should have used Createx Airbrush Colors. I also have used Guerra paint.
I have used both foam brushes (cheap ones from the hardware store) which seems to get eaten up by the paper and I find small pieces of foam on the paper when the paint is dry. I have also used house painting brushes.
Do you apply it keeping the paper flat and letting it dry flat or do you hold it upright?
pastelli
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:26 PM
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Deborah Secor Deborah Secor is offline
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Re: Underpainting pigments/brushes on wallis paper

Sandy? Is that you?

I use the Createx Pure Pigments with no trouble... I tape the Wallis paper to my board all the way around and leave it taped down throughout the process. When I'm not demonstrating I do it flat on the table, but it can also just run and drip, I don't care.

I have a soft 3" flat brush (not for house painting, but a fine art brush reserved for this use) that I wet lightly and dip into the color in my fancy-schmancy muffin tin palette. I put perhaps 7 drops of the pigment in each cup and dip the brush into the color, and go for it. My goal is to achieve color without getting the paper soaking, sopping wet.

This is how it looks (a demo I did for a class):



The colors are rich and brilliant even when they dry. They don't fill the grain of the paper at all. I don't do a lot of real painting, just use saturated color to create the value structure. I work from light to dark--and since I only have two blues, two reds and a yellow, that's pretty much just yellow, red, blue. I let the colors mix mostly on the paper, rather than mixing in the palette, but that's probably because I think of this as a pastel painting primarily. It really makes a nice color base.

Hope that helps...
Deborah
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:22 PM
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Re: Underpainting pigments/brushes on wallis paper

Golden Fluid Acrylics are really nice for underpainting on Wallis too. Even when diluted with a little water the color remains intense and they don't fill up the tooth. I have a 3 inch bristle brush, probably meant for house painting, and some smaller inexpensive brushes meant for oil painting that I use.
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Old 11-18-2009, 03:39 PM
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Re: Underpainting pigments/brushes on wallis paper

Deborah and everyone, given the choice would you chose the Createx Pure Pigments over gouache? I have found that sometimes the most intensely-colored gouache applications gum up the tooth a bit on the sanded papers. Have you the same result?

Jan
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Old 11-18-2009, 03:51 PM
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Re: Underpainting pigments/brushes on wallis paper

Jan, I much prefer using the CPP to underpaint on Wallis. Gouache needs to be thick and juicy to please me, but that does fill the grain a lot and doesn't invite using pastel over the top as much.

I've also heard you can go to the local paint store and get the pigments used to color paint (in those machines,) which is also pigment without the paint body, but I haven't tried that.

Deborah
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:13 PM
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Re: Underpainting pigments/brushes on wallis paper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah Secor
I've also heard you can go to the local paint store and get the pigments used to color paint (in those machines,) which is also pigment without the paint body, but I haven't tried that.

Deborah

One of the guys over in Plein Air uses paint store rejects to tone his boards for oil painting so I bought some little sample jars of house paint to try. Beautiful colors but they totally filled up the tooth of my paper. The eggshell finish was kind of slick and shiny too. Duh! I didn't even know that the actual pigments might be a possibility for us so thanks for that info, Deborah.
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Old 11-21-2009, 03:25 PM
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Re: Underpainting pigments/brushes on wallis paper

I use watercolor and spray with with water to create blooms or a hard pastel with Gamsol.

If you are using watercolor, it's best to have the Wallis paper mounted on board as it tends to buckle if you don't. You can let the water colordry and layer another color over it for some unusual and interesting effects.

If you are using a hard to medium hard pastel, you can apply it using the side and brush on the Gamsol or Turpenoid (Gamsol takes longer to dry) with an inexpensive paint brush. A soft bristle will give a different effect than a hard bristle. They wear out, but so what? You'll get strong chroma if you use a pastel with saturated pigment. You don't need to have the Wallis paper mounted for this and you can do it on your easel or flat, depending on the effect you want. You can also use alcohol.

I've found oil paint tends to fill up the tooth and acrylic leaves a plastic coating. Haven't tried gouache, but imagine anything with a binder will tend to gum up the paper somewhat. I like using the high pigment pastels with a solvent the best because of this.
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Old 11-21-2009, 03:42 PM
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Re: Underpainting pigments/brushes on wallis paper

I haven't tried the Createx Pure Pigments, but I use watercolor without any problem. I admit that I don't try to get as much chroma as I see on Deborah's example (Deb, I'm going to have to try that stuff!) I use stiff hog-hair bristle brushes, but I am told that the synthetic water-based oil bristles work well too. Mounting the paper is a must.

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Old 11-21-2009, 04:43 PM
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Re: Underpainting pigments/brushes on wallis paper

I'd like to mention PanPastels. You'd have to 'stamp' it into Wallis, but it works beautifully for underpaintings, without clogging tooth.

In fact, a certain Pastel Guild is having an article on Pans for underpainting in the December issue of their newsletter, on AS Colourfix. Probably issuing about a week into December. ;-)

Charlie
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Old 11-21-2009, 11:57 PM
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Re: Underpainting pigments/brushes on wallis paper

I agree with almost all the suggestions here.

Charlie's suggestion is great, PanPastels give a nice underpainting like a veil, and you don't have issues with adhesion ( they are pastels) they are also very sheer and don't fill up the tooth much, very nice effects.

That being said, I also use Createx Pure Pigments sometimes, some dilute better than others. Some colors are incredibly powerful, and mine, if not diluted enough, sometime give a metallic ( sort of ) finish, like gasoline flowing on a wet pavement, making rainbows ( I know this description sounds crazy, but that's what happens to me sometimes)

I have also used watercolors and they work beautifully and they lay differently because the paper is not absorbent, but I like to save my watercolors rather than using them this way. you have to use more color than you think, they usually dry lighter than they appear when wet.

Acrillics have not been a good choice for me, for the reasons mentioned above.
Guache I did not try.
Underpainting with hard sticks and alcohol works well, but the colors are somewhat less brilliant ( it's fine though because it's underpainting) wiith min. spirits I did not try.
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Old 11-22-2009, 12:02 AM
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Re: Underpainting pigments/brushes on wallis paper

Forgot to mention brushes. If you use synthetics they will last much better than natural hairs. However I still use black bristle cheap brushes, but some of mine are gone to the handle now. When they get very short and stiff they become interesting for other applications too. Wallis will kill any brushes in the long term though.

Panpastels for underpainting can be applied with their sponges ( do get damaged) or you can buy a dollar store bag of make-up sponges and use those. They are less firm than the PP sponges but the texture is identical, and they lay the powder perfectly.
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Old 11-22-2009, 12:18 AM
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Re: Underpainting pigments/brushes on wallis paper

I'm just starting to experiment with the Wallis Paper and I really like the effect of the Pan pastels on it. I applied it with my finger tips (heck... they grow back!) I try to think about pressing the pan pastel into the paper instead of brushing it.
I never thought of under painting the paper with a pigment. I just bought some other paper from Australia with pigment applied....... but that paper was so expensive it may need to be framed without my possibly damaging it with my work!
Sheila aka RLT
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Old 11-22-2009, 11:19 AM
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Re: Underpainting pigments/brushes on wallis paper

I've just used watercolors - like Phil and yet also some Acrylics - nothing special but they aren't as dark and saturated as the Createx. I need to invest in some or just keep painting and washing off stained paper because for some reason - that's even more effective for me.... used surfaces.
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Old 11-22-2009, 03:44 PM
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Re: Underpainting pigments/brushes on wallis paper

I'm looking for the createx pure pigement seems surprisingly hard to find. I've even gone through createx's website to check out their list of dealers, and all the dealers I've tried seem to carry the 'airbrush' and not the 'pure pigment' lines.

I have a very good local store too and it doesnt' carry it either (but it's good enough to carry spectrafix and pastelmat - 2 new products you can't get anywhere else).

Deborah and others - where do you buy it?
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Old 11-22-2009, 05:13 PM
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Re: Underpainting pigments/brushes on wallis paper

Timon, I got it from DickBlick, about a year ago.
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