WetCanvas
Home Member Services Content Areas Tools Info Center WC Partners Shop Help
Channels:
Search for:
in:

Welcome to the WetCanvas forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit our help center.

Go Back   WetCanvas > Explore Media > Pastels > Materials
User Name
Password
Register Mark Forums Read

Salute to our Partners
WC! Sponsors

View Poll Results: Our pastels contain dangerous substances. How does this affect you?
I don't use pastels containing chromium, cobalt, manganese, etc. 10 6.94%
I use the pastels, but take very serious precautions: gloves, ventilator, etc. 5 3.47%
I take some reasonable precautions: I don't blow the dust, I work outside, etc. 42 29.17%
I think it's overblown; I just grab the pastels, work bare-handed, etc. 67 46.53%
I eat pastels for lunch. The cobalt is especially tasty. 20 13.89%
Voters: 144. You may not vote on this poll

Our Sponsors
 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46   Report Bad Post  
Old 12-03-2009, 04:02 PM
Phil Coleman Phil Coleman is offline
Senior Member
Darlington
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 294
 
Hails from United Kingdom
Re: POLL: Awareness / Concern about Toxicity

ONE WARNING ON THE NET,

DANGER! CONTAINS CADMIUM. CANCER HAZARD. AVOID CREATING DUST. CAN CAUSE LUNG AND KIDNEY DISEASE. CAN CAUSE CANCER. Risk of cancer depends upon duration and level of exposure. AFFECTS BLOOD AND PROSTATE. MAY AFFECT THE REPRODUCTIVE SYSTEM. MAY CAUSE IRRITATION TO SKIN AND EYES.

I was reading that inhalation can give rise to the greatest levels of absorption >up to 65% absorption!!!

Nowadays, the cadmium pigments have been partially replaced by azo pigments. These are similar in lightfastness to the cadmium colors and have the advantage of both being cheaper and non-toxic, YET SOME ARE STILL USING CADMIUM.

Last edited by Phil Coleman : 12-03-2009 at 04:13 PM.
  #47   Report Bad Post  
Old 12-03-2009, 04:39 PM
Colorix's Avatar
Colorix Colorix is offline
A WC! Legend
Stockholm, Sweden
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,556
 
Hails from Sweden
Re: POLL: Awareness / Concern about Toxicity

Phil, I know, the net is packed with stuff like that. But we're talking cadmium salts, and they don't behave as raw cadmium. Would you eat sodium, or chloride? You may avoid NaCl, many do, but I put a lot of it on my french fries, and regardless of eating quite a bit of table-salt, I'm alive, thriving, and have low blood pressure.

Charlie
__________________
Charlie

Charlie's Site/Blog
  #48   Report Bad Post  
Old 12-04-2009, 09:05 AM
bwjnsn bwjnsn is offline
Senior Member
Southern Utah
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 235
 
Hails from United States
Re: POLL: Awareness / Concern about Toxicity

If I can buy nontoxic certified pastels then I see no reason not to. Some say the ones with hazardous warnings wont hurt you, others disagree. I dont know but I will play it safe. I only buy open stock, no sets, so I can pick the ones without heavy metals and the ones that are lightfast. BUT... when I get them home I stick my bare fingers in and I breathe some dust. Cant stand to wear a mask! And if I had a big collection of questionable sticks already I would certainly use them up.
I do wash my fruits and veggies, and buy safe household cleaners. Hey it wont hurt. But I will pass on cadmium for my french fries!
__________________
Brett

When we are bursting with some wordless experience, Art is our voice,
the song of the heart. ---R. Schmid

Last edited by bwjnsn : 12-04-2009 at 09:09 AM.
  #49   Report Bad Post  
Old 12-04-2009, 09:45 AM
Phil Coleman Phil Coleman is offline
Senior Member
Darlington
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 294
 
Hails from United Kingdom
Re: POLL: Awareness / Concern about Toxicity

''I just purchased the TOTOBOBO Mask'' and >>>
''My husband also bought me an air filter for Christmas''

Paula are you not listed as one of those who EATS Cobalt dust?
  #50   Report Bad Post  
Old 12-04-2009, 10:16 AM
Phil Coleman Phil Coleman is offline
Senior Member
Darlington
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 294
 
Hails from United Kingdom
Re: POLL: Awareness / Concern about Toxicity

This appears to be a good link and describes the toxicity of most of the compounds which we may encounter and the dangers by various forms of contamination!

http://www.tucsonaz.gov/arthazards/paint1.html
  #51   Report Bad Post  
Old 12-04-2009, 03:47 PM
Colorix's Avatar
Colorix Colorix is offline
A WC! Legend
Stockholm, Sweden
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,556
 
Hails from Sweden
Re: POLL: Awareness / Concern about Toxicity

On the other hand, there are academic papers:

Quote:
Duke University Medical Center
Department of Community & Family Medicine
Division of Occupational & Environmental Medicine
Box 3834
Duke University Medical Center
Durham, NC 27710
April 26, 2003

Tel: 919-286-5744
FAX: 919-286-5647

Risk Assessment for Exposure to Respirable Dusts
Generated from the Use of Chalks and Pastels

(...)

If a pastel artist used the pastel line with the highest level of each of the noted chemicals, then exposures would be less than the OEHHA safe harbor levels in each instance. The fraction of the OEHHA safe harbor exposure level for each of these chemicals would be as follows:

Component of interest Fraction of Safe Harbor Level (range)
pigment 0.001-0.013
cadmium 0-0.05
hexavalent chromium 0-0.0003
Hexachlorobenzene 0-0.0000005
3,3’-dichlorobenene 0-0.0000005
respirable quartz 0.00001-0.0016

Although pastel dusts may contain components that can increase risk of chronic health effects at high exposure levels, exposures to pastel dusts are low. The risk of any adverse effect is correspondingly low as well. No special precautions are necessary to prevent excessive exposure to such dusts, either during use or cleanup.





Woodhall Stopford, MD, MSPH

Unfortunately, I forgot to copy and paste the link, but I guess it is findable by name.



Charlie
__________________
Charlie

Charlie's Site/Blog
  #52   Report Bad Post  
Old 12-04-2009, 06:25 PM
DAK723's Avatar
DAK723 DAK723 is offline
WC! Guide
Rochester, NY
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 12,586
 
Re: POLL: Awareness / Concern about Toxicity

I am no expert on health issues by any means, but I believe that one thing to keep in mind, at least regarding the California Prop. 65 labeling, is that the label does not mean the material IS hazardous. It only means that the material CONTAINS a hazardous substance. It matters not whether the amount of hazardous material is way below the safety requirements or limits set. So if it contains one part per million of hazardous substance "X", the "hazardous" label is required, even if the amount that is considered hazardous is 1,000 parts per million. This is the way I have had it explained to me - I hope it is accurate.

Because the labeling is so strict, in a strange way, it doesn't really tell you whether the material is "realistically" harmful or not. Again, I am absolutely no expert on this, but my feeling is that art materials in almost all cases fall well below the actual harmful level. According to a statement put out by Grumbacher after the new labeling went into affect, they (and all the other manufacturer's) used to label many of these art materials as non-toxic, but were now required to put on the hazardous label, despite the fact that they did not change the formula nor did the recommended safety levels change.

Don
__________________
Don Ketchek, WC Guide - Pastels

My Blog My Art Gallery My Photo Gallery
  #53   Report Bad Post  
Old 12-05-2009, 03:58 AM
Phil Coleman Phil Coleman is offline
Senior Member
Darlington
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 294
 
Hails from United Kingdom
Re: POLL: Awareness / Concern about Toxicity

'' No special precautions are necessary to prevent excessive exposure to such dusts''

Then why are people buying air purifiers since we are working within a very small margin of what can be considered a dangerously high contamination level?

Does Senneliers , Giraults or Schmincke contain any heavy metals?

For those who have purchased air purifiers, are they not in effect acknowledging the fact that there could be a potential health hazard?

Last edited by Phil Coleman : 12-05-2009 at 04:15 AM.
  #54   Report Bad Post  
Old 12-05-2009, 05:45 AM
Colorix's Avatar
Colorix Colorix is offline
A WC! Legend
Stockholm, Sweden
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,556
 
Hails from Sweden
Re: POLL: Awareness / Concern about Toxicity

Don, thank you, it clarifies something that's been hinted at. We're usually not nearly as 'pedantic' (for lack of a better word) in Europe. When we are, the US regulations are cited.

Phil, I use both a mask and a purifier, but that is because I have excessively sensitive mucuous membranes and I don't want to trigger an inflammation from the pure mechanical irritation of breathing in dust, of any kind. I wear a dust-mask when dusting the house, too, and the air-to-air heating system filters the air with a hepa filter.

I'm digging deeper into this Cadmium issue, but it will take a long while. So far, it seems like most hazards are from heated pure cadmium (which is blue-whitish metal). The fumes are a danger. Strict control and safety measures have to be taken when producing cadmium things, from the metal. But in pigments, cadmium salts are used (chemically an entirely different product than the pure metal, just as table-salt isn't dangerous, but its componenets Na and Cl are. Not seen any safety labelling on table-salt yet, but it wouldn't surprise me to find it in California...). Something in the vicinity of 75% of the cadmium humans get into their (our) bodies are from the use of fertilizer of crops. Anyway, cadmium salts are extremely stable and heat-resistant. I will dig into this, and luckily I have a chemist in the house, who can help me.

Charlie
__________________
Charlie

Charlie's Site/Blog
  #55   Report Bad Post  
Old 12-05-2009, 06:32 AM
Phil Coleman Phil Coleman is offline
Senior Member
Darlington
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 294
 
Hails from United Kingdom
Re: POLL: Awareness / Concern about Toxicity

Thanks Charlie,,
I can understand your concerns due to your sensitive mucuous membranes and I understand the effect that inhaling dust could have with regards to this.

My concerns are also related to health issues, i have just undergone a series of scans on my Kidneys. It showed my right Kidney to be deformed, this could of been like this from birth and there is a large cyst present on my left one. There is nothing life threatening regarding either but it has alerted me to the possible dangers from chemical contamination. Especially since Cadmium can have an adverse effect on the kidneys. Also, some 7 years ago i had a major scare with regards to my lungs but otherwise i am fighting fit and yes i intend to continue using this medium.

I may decide to use those pastels which do not contain heavy metals, Rembrandt's and such and i am also searching Ebay for Air Purifiers, since the removal of airborne dust can only be a good thing!

Thanks.
  #56   Report Bad Post  
Old 12-05-2009, 07:53 AM
JPQ JPQ is offline
Lord of the Arts
Finland
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,154
 
Hails from Finland
Re: POLL: Awareness / Concern about Toxicity

Saddly these rembrands have such limited colour range and at least these three what i currently only have are are bit hard side. but is nice yellow greens are brighter what i ever imagined based colour charts. saddly nicest stuff what i found uses heavy metals but. but i think mask etc helps lot and some areas there is other choices as well i mean almost same hue at least in colour chart.
  #57   Report Bad Post  
Old 12-05-2009, 10:04 AM
Colorix's Avatar
Colorix Colorix is offline
A WC! Legend
Stockholm, Sweden
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,556
 
Hails from Sweden
Re: POLL: Awareness / Concern about Toxicity

Of the European brands, the Rembrandts (Talens) say they're totally free of dangerous metals, no cads, leads, or cobalts.

I really want to find out the truth about cad pigments in pastels. It seems they are generally not considered dangerous suspended in oils, but we breathe dust, and we touch the sticks. Will update as I find out more.

Charlie
__________________
Charlie

Charlie's Site/Blog
  #58   Report Bad Post  
Old 12-05-2009, 10:19 AM
Phil Coleman Phil Coleman is offline
Senior Member
Darlington
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 294
 
Hails from United Kingdom
Re: POLL: Awareness / Concern about Toxicity

Would the toxicology units attached to hospitals not be able to shed further light onto this, since they must have in depth results relating to such compounds for the treatment of complications caused by the ingestion of, or from the inhalation of such substances.
  #59   Report Bad Post  
Old 12-05-2009, 10:57 AM
Colorix's Avatar
Colorix Colorix is offline
A WC! Legend
Stockholm, Sweden
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,556
 
Hails from Sweden
Re: POLL: Awareness / Concern about Toxicity

Phil, understand you need to take really good care of your kidneys! Probably wise for you to avoid anything that might affect them adversly.

Here's a chart for you (and us all), and maybe you can judge the source better, as it is British.
http://www.artiscreation.com/yellow.html
They list the cads as "possibly" hazardous, as a B, where A is harmless. C is hazardous, and D is toxic.

Comparing to the Schmincke chart, none of the cads are used by Schmincke.

Every pigment has a key number, Pigment Yellow 35, for example, usually shortened to PY 35. If you know the contents of a pastel stick (usually on the colour charts, or wrappers), then you can look up what kind of stuff it is in it.

There exist medical research, however, from what I've found, those studies have been done on miners, solderers, battery workers, etc, who use the pure metal cadmium, in huge quantities, and even if they use the stable (chemically un-reactive) salts, they are often heated to high temperatures which produce cadmium gases. Other studies are made on rats who're fed cads, and they get such doses we'd not get from a lifetime (70 years) of using pastels with cads. Even these rats don't absorb more than 20%, the rest passes right through the digestive system (and out in the other end of the rat, talk about GIGO -- Garbage IN, Garbage Out).

Charlie
__________________
Charlie

Charlie's Site/Blog
  #60   Report Bad Post  
Old 12-05-2009, 11:40 AM
Phil Coleman Phil Coleman is offline
Senior Member
Darlington
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 294
 
Hails from United Kingdom
Re: POLL: Awareness / Concern about Toxicity

This is one of the lesser harmful pigments >>>> CHROMIUM OXIDE (other names:-chromia, chrome green, chromium sesquioxide, viridian) used to produce some greens, Winsor and Newton do use this and perhaps many other companies do also!

Toxicity
Though chomium oxide green is not a serious health hazard, it can cause irritation of the skin and eyes, and can cause nausea and other problems if ingested. It also can cause respiratory problems when dust is inhaled. It is not a fire hazard, and does not readily react with other materials.

Another >>>> NAPLES YELLOW DARK A pigment which can be readily bought on the internet!

Toxicity
Lead antimonate yellow contains lead and is rated toxic, especially by prolonged exposure through ingestion or inhalation. Utmost care should be used in handling the dry powder pigment to avoid breathing the dust. It is only moderately toxic in contact with the skin.

CADMIUM RED LIGHT

Toxicity
Cadmium light red is not considered to be toxic, but care should be used in handling the dry powder pigment to avoid inhaling the dust or ingesting the pigment in any form. It is considered to be carcinogenic in the State of California.

PREGNANCY and the danger from pigments

REDS
There are a great many red pigments, and happily many of them are perfectly safe to use during pregnancy (see the reference lists at the end of this article); most of these are earth colors, rather soft in tone.
Safe reds include all the earth reds (English Red, Red Ochre, Venetian Red, etc.), Mars Red and other Red Oxides, and Ultramarine Red, a weak, transparent pinkish red related to Ultramarine Blue.
Unfortunately, the bright reds are more problematic.

All cadmium colors, including Cadmium Reds and Cadmium-Barium Reds, are teratogens and embryotoxins, in addition to their other carcinogenic and toxic properties.

YELLOWS
Cadmium Yellows are teratogens and embryotoxins (see Cadmium Red, above).

GREENS
Almost all greens contain chromium, cobalt, or copper, all of which are poisonous and cause or are suspected to cause birth defects and abnormalities.

VIOLETS
Cobalt Violet and Manganese Violet, as might be expected, are poisonous.

BLUES
Phthalocyanine Blue has the same problems as Phthalocyanine Green (i.e. it is both a teratogen and an embryotoxin and older batches may be contaminated with PCBs).

Cerulean Blue and Cobalt Blue contain cobalt.



Manganese Blue contains manganese, which appears to be a mutagen in large doses.


BLACKS
Lamp Black can cause cancer by skin contact, but is not an especial danger to an unborn baby.

HAZARDOUS PIGMENTS
Pigments marked with an * are teratogenic or fetotoxic in humans and/or lab animals.

Aureolin/Cobalt Yellow
Burnt Umber
*Cadmium Reds, Yellows, and Orange
*Cadmium-Barium Reds, Yellows, and Orange
*Cadmium-Vermilion Red
Cerulean Blue
*Chrome Yellow
Chromium Oxide Green
Cobalt Blue, Green, Violet, and Yellow
*Diarylide Yellow
*Flake White
Graphite
Hansa Yellows
Lamp Black
Lithol Red
Mars Brown
Manganese Blue
Manganese Violet
*Naples Yellow
*Phthalocyanine Blue
*Phthalocyanine Green
Raw Umber
Toluidine Red
Vermilion
Viridian


RECOMMENDED READING
Gottsegen, Mark David. The Painter's Handbook, Watson-Guptill Publications, New York 1993. McCann, Michael. Artist Beware, Watson-Guptill Publications, New York 1979. McCann, Michael. Health Hazards Manual for Artists, Nick Lyons Books, New York 1985.

Inorganic metals and minerals. Several carcinogens are known among metals or their salts. Examples of these include beryllium, cadmium, nickel, cobalt, and chromium. Only two minerals are known to cause cancer: asbestos and arsenic

Last edited by Phil Coleman : 12-05-2009 at 12:15 PM.

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:40 AM.


© 2014 F+W All rights reserved.