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  • #989556
    fox0r
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        I’m just getting into watercolor — my MIL paints and she taught me some stuff..and will teach me more later. She said she uses mostly Daniel Smith paint, and mentioned that she had some Maimeri Blu but didn’t like it as much.

        She gave me a palette with paint already in it.. and had an idea of what some of the colors were.. but wasn’t positive on all of them. Obviously, I can’t use this palette forever, so I will need to purchase some paint!

        From what I’ve seen skimming the forums, both of these are good paints, and I have enjoyed using them.

        My question is, what is the best place to buy them, and what colors should I buy?

        She mentioned a rose (I don’t think it was Quinacridon Rose but I could be wrong. I think I wrote it down), phtalo blue, and lemon.

        I think I would like to stick to 10 colors or less at this point (preferably less, as to not be overwhelmed).

        She also uses Archer’s paper, which I liked a lot… so I would love to know the best place to buy that too!

        Thanks!

        ETA: I just looked at how much Archer’s paper is some places, wow. :o I don’t think I want to spend that much on paper just yet… If anyone can suggest an economy starter paper that is pretty good, that would be awesome!

        #1159651
        terranersa
        Default

            I like bee paper 100% cotton, you can find it on amazon.

            #1159641
            pumkin54
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                1. Places: I do most of my online shopping at Jerry’s Artarama[/URL] or Dick Blick[/URL]. Occasionally I visit Daniel Smith[/URL] or Cheap Joe’s, but only when they’re having a good sale/shipping special.

                2. Paints: The color she mentioned was probably Permanent Rose. There are a many, many threads on these forums talking about color choices. Somebody will point out the learning zone thread, which will be extremely helpful to you. I personally wouldn’t start out with phthalo blue because it’s very strong and staining, properties that mean a higher learning curve than a “normal” blue like cerulean or cobalt.

                3. Paper: From my many hours lurking and posting on these forums, it seems that Arches or Fabriano cold press 140 lb. paper are the most popular. You will find that many people have something against economy paper. There’s nothing at all wrong with using it. It’s what I started on, but I had never used artist paper before. If you’ve already used Arches, however, you will be more aware of the differences between artist quality and economy paper, and you might not like the downgrade much.

                That being said, two brands that I use are Fabriano Studio and Canson Montval[/URL] (make sure it says Montval, not Foundation or XL). The two brands are very different in texture, but both good quality student grade. Another brand is Strathmore 400[/URL], which I personally don’t like much but it’s the easiest to find in craft stores, etc. The most noticeable difference between these papers and Arches is that they don’t take corrections or lifting as well. If you rub too much, the paper will start to pill up.
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                [FONT=Century Gothic] pumk[/B][/COLOR][FONT=Century Gothic]i[/B][/COLOR][FONT=Century Gothic]n [FONT=Century Gothic]
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                #1159650
                juliet45
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                    Some professional artists use Bockinford paper and it is a reasonable price.

                    Irena

                    #1159634
                    doppler
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                        Can’t advise you where to buy. Both brands are excellent.

                        Re paper … pay for the Arches or something of similar quality. You’ll “waste” a lot but you never know, you may end up with something really special. If your early masterpiece is on cheap paper … ??? It’s not waste if you learn.

                        The other point is that in Watercolour painting the paper matters, a LOT.
                        :) :thumbsup:

                        Annie
                        "On the other hand, you have different fingers".
                        Steven Wright
                        My Flickr Site

                        #1159635
                        sashntash
                        Default

                            The quality of the watercolor paper you use is probably the most important.. then the quality of the paint.. and last, the brushes.

                            I highly recommend dickblick.com for art supplies. their regular prices are reasonable and even better when they have a sale.

                            Paper – buy the 22″ x 30″ sheets then cut those into quarters…. and buy 10 or more sheets at a time to get the quantity discount. Then the price isn’t too bad. So for the price of 10 sheets at the quantity discount, you’ll get 40 quarter sheets for paintings. That works out to about $1.10 per quarter sheet for Arches and 96 cents per quarter sheet for Fabriano Artistico.

                            Most people use Arches or Fabriano Artistico 140 lb paper in either Cold Press or Rough texture. Arches 140 lb Cold Press is probably the most widely used.

                            Paint – there are many good brands. I use Maimeri Blu and Winsor & Newton. I have about 30 colors and 20 are W&N and 10 are Maimeri. Daniel Smith is good … as is M. Graham.

                            Brushes – good quality synthetics from Escoda are what I started with. Now I also use synthetic/sable mixes from Da Vinci (Cosmotop Spin) and some kolinsky sable rounds from Raphael (series 8404) and Escoda (series 1212)

                            As to color choices :D there are as many suggestions as there are artists… lol. It’s so personal…

                            As you learn more about pigments (what is used to make the paint colors), get to know pigment numbers and have learned more about the theories/practices of mixing colors and how they react together, and have been introduced to handprint.com and have read it a thousand times… then you will be able to choose your favorite colors. For now… just pick a few reds, yellows and blues and, as Virgil always says, “sling paint.”

                            Here’s the handprint.com guide to pigment colors…. very valuable, but too confusing probably at this point.. so just bookmark it for now… lol

                            http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/waterfs.html

                            and.. some helpful ideas for choosing your colors to get started

                            http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/wpalet.html

                            Most important… have fun !!!

                            Susan
                            in beautiful North Carolina
                            Retired and loving every minute of it !!!
                            Time to play......

                            #1159649
                            StewGold
                            Default

                                I agree, you’ve lovely paint, and good paper makes a difference. Have to say the first trip to America with a paintbox, I had checked paper prices before leaving; nearly fainted clean away. So hand luggage had 100 sheets of 1/4 imperial Fabriano Artisico, for which I pay $37, well under 1/3 of American prices. Have a look on ebay, and the retailers above, and see if you can find a sample pack of papers, it’s a good way to try a selection. Even twinrocker do sample packs, though their handmade paper is stultifyingly expensive; good though. But enjoy the journey, and once you’ve bought the paint; it’s yours, it’s a dull ornament and you don’t get a refund, so use it and enjoy it.

                                #1159622

                                Hi Fox… welcome to the watercolour forum. Yes, this question is asked a lot… I recommend that you check out the Frequently Asked Questions Thread for a little more in-depth information. It will also point you to additional links that may help you.

                                Since you’re using Daniel Smith and Maimeri paints, I’m going to assume that you’re buying your supplies in North America (it definitely makes a difference where you are…).

                                A limited palette that I recommend for my Students is:

                                Ultramarine Blue (PB29)
                                Phthalo Blue (PB15)
                                Cerulean Blue (PB36)

                                Napthol Red (PR170) or Quinacridone Red (PV209)
                                Permanent Alizarin Crimson (PR264) or Permanent Rose (PV19)

                                Hansa Yellow (PY3)
                                Yellow Ochre (PY43)

                                Burnt Sienna (PBr7)

                                I am not “brand loyal”, but I generally start them out with DaVinci because it’s a excellent but economical manufacturer.

                                Personally, I have several brands of paint on my palette because over the years I’ve discovered a preference for one colour over another. It’s amazing how the identical pigment can look completely different from brand to brand.

                                If you wish to expand this palette, I do like a couple of convenience colours… indigo is one of my favourites. And I have a wider variety of reds because I love painting florals and still lifes. Viridian or Sap Green are good base greens if you prefer to start with something that can be varied with the addition of other pigments. Daniel Smith’s Quinacridone Gold is one of my favourite yellows… it has a wide value range that’s both interesting (because of the brownish cast in mass tone) and vibrant (it thins out to a beautiful, clear yellow)…

                                What’s really important is that you take the time to learn how your pigments behave and how you can mix them to expand your range of colour.

                                I’m a little surprised that you find Arches paper so expensive. Are you pricing out the 300# weight, or blocks? By the sheet, 140# paper is generally $5-6 on sale… That makes each quarter sheet cost just a little over $1… not bad… You can buy cold pressed paper to start your journey and then try out the rough (my favourite) and hot press depending on your painting style. Fabriano’s paper is soft pressed and while it’s an excellent paper, it doesn’t take as much punishment as Arches.

                                I’m also going to assume that you already have a few brushes. Initially, synthetics will serve you well as they’re inexpensive and will last you a very long time. A 1″ flat brush for laying down larger washes is a good purchase. I prefer to use rounds, so that’s what I introduce to my Students. They each start with a #10, #8 and #2 rounds, along with their large wash brush. I have never found it necessary to buy riggers, because a well pointed round will make fine lines just as well. A couple of my Students have found they prefer flat brushes which also come in a variety of sizes. Simply Simmons is an inexpensive student quality brand that seems to hold up beautifully… I use them myself.

                                Paint away! Have fun and post what you’ve done!

                                Char --

                                CharMing Art -- "Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art." Leonardo DaVinci

                                #1159655
                                DKB444
                                Default

                                    You have received wonderful advice. I have to say that quality artist’s paper is the key! I like to buy from Dick Blick and when they ship the paper it is very well protected! They also may give you a complimentary set of different brands of paper to try out before you buy. Just be sure and ask because I switched paper brands because of the prices of some brands and their sample papers helped me to make a good decision. Welcome to the fun of watercolor! :thumbsup:

                                    [FONT=Arial]Debra
                                    [FONT=Arial]"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams." - Eleanor Roosevelt

                                    #1159626
                                    fox0r
                                    Default

                                        The most I do at this point (and the past several years :( ) are pencil or pen doodles. It is very rare that I color something (color pencil or on occasional marker.. but I lost all of my decent markers in a move). And when I do do any art work, it is usually on cheap drawing pads from the craft store, or printer paper.

                                        I tend to burn through too many sheets to buy expensive papers. If I don’t like the way something is coming out I’ll crumple it and throw it somewhere. Which, I know is bad, and wastes a lot of paper… and I need to stop doing that. So I’m sure you can see my dilemma with buying paper that costs a couple of bucks a sheet.

                                        My MIL told me the same thing, though, that paper was the most important part, and that you could skimp elsewhere and still get pretty good work as long as you bought the right paper.

                                        But still… at a couple bucks a sheet… I know I’m probably going to burn through it too quickly for that kind of a price. I’ll have to look when I go to the craft store and see if there are any similar weights and textures for a more affordable price.

                                        She gave me a couple of squirrel brushes to use, and a synthetic one. The mop-style squirrel she lent me is my favorite so far, I think. I think they are Isalby? Something like that, anyway.

                                        #1159636
                                        sashntash
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                                            One other thing that helped me a lot when I was starting out….

                                            pigment numbers translated :D

                                            P stands for “pigment”

                                            the next letter stands for the hue/color family

                                            the number is the pigment number within that family…

                                            soooooooooooooooo

                                            PB29 means Pigment Blue family#29
                                            PR206 means Pigment Red family #206
                                            PY43 is Pigment Yellow family #43

                                            and so on…

                                            PBr is Pigment Brown family
                                            etc…

                                            Each pigment number stands for a particular pigment used to make paint

                                            PB 29 is Ultramarine Blue
                                            PB 28 is Cobalt Blue
                                            PO 43 is Perinone Orange
                                            PR 108 is Cadmium Red

                                            but.. be forewarned… those are the names of the pigments used to make the paint….. that doesn’t always correspond to the “marketing name” that a brand gives to a particular color in their line of paints.

                                            for instance:

                                            PB15 is Phthalo Blue

                                            Some manufacturers call the paint they make with that pigment:
                                            Phthalo Blue
                                            Thalo Blue
                                            Winsor Blue
                                            Primary Blue Cyan
                                            etc

                                            but they are all made with PB 15

                                            Also, paints made with the same pigment can vary somewhat in color depending on how finely a particular manufacturer grinds the pigment.

                                            so… in short… it helps to get familiar with pigment numbers and use those when choosing paint colors rather than the “name” the particular brand gives to their color…

                                            Susan
                                            in beautiful North Carolina
                                            Retired and loving every minute of it !!!
                                            Time to play......

                                            #1159637
                                            sashntash
                                            Default

                                                The most I do at this point (and the past several years :( ) are pencil or pen doodles. It is very rare that I color something (color pencil or on occasional marker.. but I lost all of my decent markers in a move). And when I do do any art work, it is usually on cheap drawing pads from the craft store, or printer paper.

                                                I tend to burn through too many sheets to buy expensive papers. If I don’t like the way something is coming out I’ll crumple it and throw it somewhere. Which, I know is bad, and wastes a lot of paper… and I need to stop doing that. So I’m sure you can see my dilemma with buying paper that costs a couple of bucks a sheet.

                                                My MIL told me the same thing, though, that paper was the most important part, and that you could skimp elsewhere and still get pretty good work as long as you bought the right paper.

                                                But still… at a couple bucks a sheet… I know I’m probably going to burn through it too quickly for that kind of a price. I’ll have to look when I go to the craft store and see if there are any similar weights and textures for a more affordable price.

                                                She gave me a couple of squirrel brushes to use, and a synthetic one. The mop-style squirrel she lent me is my favorite so far, I think. I think they are Isalby? Something like that, anyway.

                                                Your MIL is giving you some good stuff :)

                                                Isabey brushes are top of the line…. As are Winsor & Newton and Maimeri paints. You’re off to a good start.

                                                However, I will caution you again about using paper from a craft store. Watercolor paint does not handle the same way on cheap paper. Unfortunately, you won’t learn what you can do with watercolor on cheap paper…. and.. if you do decide to continue with watercolor, you will have to start your learning curve all over again when you do switch to good paper.

                                                How about cutting the sheets into smaller pieces? Like cutting the standard 22 x 30″ sheets into 1/8ths??? That would be 50 cents per sheet if you buy online with the quantity discount :D

                                                ALSO —- you can paint on both sides, so that cuts the cost in half !!!

                                                ALSO ALSO … lol…. craft store prices are way higher than buying online. One sheet of Arches at dickblick.com is $4.50… at my local Michaels store it is $8.00 per sheet !!!

                                                Susan
                                                in beautiful North Carolina
                                                Retired and loving every minute of it !!!
                                                Time to play......

                                                #1159646
                                                molly007
                                                Default

                                                    Fox, May I suggest that you “sign up” for some or all of the internet art supply places? They are all free and you can delete emails. (You will get some or most probably every other day.
                                                    The point being that Cheap Joe’s and Daniel Smith have 15%, 20% and sometimes more on a regular basis but you have to get their emails and the promotional codes. Most of the other sights mentioned, you must buy so much dollar amount to get a discount. I’m loyal to none and which ever one has the stuff I want….. You will know when they are featuring paper on sale etc. Have a look at their websites, see which ones are easy to manuever for you and perhaps sign up to get 1 or two to get their email alerts for sales.
                                                    Your MIL will be invaluable to you and so will this sight.
                                                    Have fun! You’ve started on a great adventure!
                                                    Nicole

                                                    #1159640

                                                    Fox, welcome to the Watercolor Forum. Some very good advice ^^^^ (above). Nice that your MIL provided you with sound advice, too.

                                                    I buy my Arches #140 cp paper from the Art Supply Warehouse-ASWExpress.com. The paper is always cheaper here. I have priced it other places.

                                                    Have fun with your learning curve!!

                                                    Katherine

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                                                    #1159627
                                                    fox0r
                                                    Default

                                                        Thanks guys. :D

                                                        I buy a lot of stuff from DickBlick.com, but I’ll check out some of the other sites.

                                                        I went to two different craft stores and picked up the following:
                                                        Quinacridon Rose
                                                        Pthalo Blue Red shade
                                                        Azo Yellow
                                                        Chinese White
                                                        All M. Graham.

                                                        The store I went to had them 40% off, and if you bought 3 you got a white free. So, I paid $24.18 for all 4 tubes! I didn’t think that was too shabby.

                                                        I also bought W&N’s Cotman Atrist Watercolor Compact Set. It was $23 and I used a 40% off coupon on it.

                                                        I bought a cheapie $2.50 mop brush, which actually seems to be half decent.

                                                        Then for paper I bought a cheap $5 pad, and $8 watercolor Journal, and then a $16 pad of 9×12 Arches — and all were 40% off.

                                                        I like sales. XD

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