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  #31   Report Bad Post  
Old 12-16-2015, 03:17 PM
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Re: The photo-realist as craftsman

a Llama Colin: tut tut, I'll stick to my toilet roll thanks.
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Old 12-16-2015, 04:02 PM
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Re: The photo-realist as craftsman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcam
En: "Goings" is not my favorite, just used him for a visual intro to my thread.
Who knows why Goings did what he did or does, perhaps the challenge of getting it "just right"?

Why did Kelly do this??


Some art does not transfer well to being printed or shown on a screen.
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Old 12-16-2015, 04:23 PM
EnPassant EnPassant is offline
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Re: The photo-realist as craftsman

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColinS
(I dashed off a "paint-thing" of a llama that way last night -- a few strokes of the brush and the creature emerged like Athena springing from the head of Zeus. And I don't "do" animals, normally, so I was shocked at how easily this thing came off my brush. : If only this was always the case.)

Yes, sometimes I set out to do a realist painting but I get carried away with the paint and something loose emerges. Sometimes I start loose and get carried away with realism. The thing is, when you look at things you see them on all levels. If you are walking on the street and a car passes by you know it is a car without having to examine every square inch of it; you just see a few tonal values and you get it. Interestingly, that is all it takes to make a convincing painting, a good tonal structure. Most of our perception is like this, we just see essential shapes and tones and these contain all the essential information we need to know what it is (consider a tiny, black and white, bad quality, newspaper photo of someone. You can still see, at a glance, who the person is, because the essential information is tonal.)
An artist who paints loose is painting the world the way we normally see it.

Here's a painting by Ensor that is very much dependent on paint rather than representation, as if the subject is just an occasion to get some painting done-


Last edited by EnPassant : 12-16-2015 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 12-16-2015, 04:25 PM
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Re: The photo-realist as craftsman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcam
En: "Goings" is not my favorite, just used him for a visual intro to my thread.
Who knows why Goings did what he did or does, perhaps the challenge of getting it "just right"?

Why did Kelly do this??


Maybe you have to see that for real in order to feel an impact? Some art is just no good in print or on screens.


Or perhaps it is a hyper-realistic still life from a home decorating supplies shop?
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Old 12-16-2015, 04:27 PM
fritzie fritzie is offline
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Re: The photo-realist as craftsman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcam
fritzie: RC did not generate the thread...I did. Derek
When I asked the question I wanted YOUR thoughts, but yes, if you read the whole thread you will see what I mean by craft.
Have you seen films of Pollock dripping? Compare that to the the activity of a fine furniture maker or a photo-realist.

Thank you for your correction.

I have seen Pollock dripping. Would you place something like refined, say ballet-like, choreography in a different category from craft? Does "craft" apply only to making involving fine control?
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Old 12-16-2015, 04:34 PM
EnPassant EnPassant is offline
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Re: The photo-realist as craftsman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcam
a Llama Colin: tut tut, I'll stick to my toilet roll thanks.

Gerhard Richter-

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Old 12-16-2015, 04:38 PM
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Re: The photo-realist as craftsman

Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzie
Thank you for your correction.

I have seen Pollock dripping. Would you place something like refined, say ballet-like, choreography in a different category from craft? Does "craft" apply only to making involving fine control?

No, craft can apply to stuff involving large motor coordination as well, or a combination of both.
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Old 12-16-2015, 10:18 PM
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Re: The photo-realist as craftsman

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCTent
Some art does not transfer well to being printed or shown on a screen.

This goes for photorealism too: such paintings are often quite large, and reduced to book or screen size they look substantially different from the way they look in real life.

What one makes of them depends on one's own experience and aesthetics, I suppose. Maybe they are "just copying," but for me there is nothing "just" in "just copying," because it is a skill that I have not been able to master in a good three decades of quite dedicated study and practice. I cannot make even marginally accurate copies of anything. The result is that I am quite blown away by photorealism.

People who find it easy to do will obviously not be so impressed.
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Old 12-16-2015, 10:52 PM
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Re: The photo-realist as craftsman

Well said Brian. Agreed.
fritzie: I think ballet is extremely controlled with the addition of great human emotion and expression.
Enpassant: good one

Last edited by Dcam : 12-16-2015 at 10:56 PM.
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Old 12-17-2015, 01:08 AM
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Keith Russell Keith Russell is offline
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Re: The photo-realist as craftsman

How many times must we do this?

Is photo-realism art? (Of course it is.)

Is photo-realism good? (It is good--if you like it.)

Is photo-realism good art? (Again, it is--if you like it.)

Why this will to demean artists whose work you don't like, by claiming that they're not "real" artists?

How insecure are we, anyway?
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Last edited by Keith Russell : 12-17-2015 at 01:10 AM.
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Old 12-17-2015, 08:46 AM
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Re: The photo-realist as craftsman

How can there be too many attempts to understand genres of art on an art forum?

Is it forbidden somewhere to have an opinion about what art is, and therefore be able to disagree with someone else's definition?

It doesn't surprise me at all that the subject of what art is and why keeps on emerging around here, because it is a forum for artists, and people who are interested in art, and therefore I cannot see anything more important than those two questions.

Would a science forum make any sense if the members never reminded themselves what science is, and never discussed the issue with learners?
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Old 12-17-2015, 09:47 AM
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Re: The photo-realist as craftsman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcam
Why did Kelly do this??


Well, he did write about his stuff, for example here. I think it's pretty much self indulgent nonsense, but it's the closest answer to your question I could come up with

As for whether photorealism is art, personally I don't look at it as fine art, or even significant art; just more or less fairly banal decorative art. I think it may have been Hegel explored the idea of why very lifelike waxworks like those at Madame Tussaud's weren't considered high art; maybe once I wake up I'll go dig that up; it might apply here.

More coffee please,
Chris
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Old 12-17-2015, 10:22 AM
fritzie fritzie is offline
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Re: The photo-realist as craftsman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcam
Well said Brian. Agreed.
fritzie: I think ballet is extremely controlled with the addition of great human emotion and expression.
Enpassant: good one

When I said "finely controlled," I meant in the sense of fine motor skills or fine motor coordination, as in hands. I asked because the action painter's technique involves more choreography than fine motor control, and I wondered whether it was the absence of the fine motor aspect that makes some people not think of that style in a "craft" category. [One could not surely excluding action painting for lacking expression and emotion]
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Old 12-17-2015, 10:46 AM
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Re: The photo-realist as craftsman

What isn't craft these days? Cheese isn't made anymore, it's crafted. This place makes finely crafted software http://brockerhoff.net/. Coaching is even a craft http://atomic-athlete.com/the-craft-of-coaching/. Incentive prizes are a craft too. http://dupress.com/articles/the-craf...-prize-design/

I find it kind of hilarious how words change like this so people can sell more stuff.
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Old 12-17-2015, 10:55 AM
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Re: The photo-realist as craftsman

Jim: You're so Crafty.

Understood fritzie.
another example: I make my own frames for my paintings. If my miter cuts are off just a hair, I get a bad frame. Even if I get fancy with my molding, the craft of making that frame is always paramount.
is fine craftsmanship attention to detail? hmmmmm.

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