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Old 05-08-2019, 09:52 PM
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What software has real color blending besides artrage?

I discovered Artrage when looking for blending modes that gives green when mixing yellow and blue, contrary to the default grey in RGB mode. I know it has what I look for and I have Artrage Lite from as a bonus from my tablet, making the main program 30% cheaper, but still it is somewhat expensive, so I am looking into alternatives that also can simulate paint mixtures. Does anyone know of programs that have it?
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Old 05-09-2019, 02:34 AM
Prismatoid Prismatoid is offline
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Re: What software has real color blending besides artrage?

I think most of the painterly-type art programs can do that? but it does depend on your technique. Paint Tool Sai is my software and there is a color mixing palette built in. However if I mix pure computer yellow (#ffff00) and pure computer blue (#0000ff) I also get gray. For nice mixer colors I have to pick yellows and blues that already have cool or warm tint.







I just investigated affordability for you because it's been a while since I bought my copy. Price is in yen because it's Japanese software. According to currency converter 5400 yen works out to around 50 usd so it's a little bit cheaper than Artrage at 80.
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Old 05-09-2019, 09:31 AM
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Re: What software has real color blending besides artrage?

I am in the impression that most of them don't. I know Krita doesn't and coudnt find anything on search's.

If SAI gives grey then it mixes in RGB mode. It means yellow and blue acts as complementary colors. This is different from real life paints. Look at this video to see what artrage is doing: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=%23&ved=2ahUKEwjo6cG jxY7iAhXwtlkKHYlRCN8QwqsBMAN6BAgGEAo&usg=AOvVaw0VT JzWxrN8ZFOD4xbU2nov. It uses another calculations to blend.

Thank you for investigating the price point. It is not so different from artrage with the discount, though.
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Old 05-10-2019, 03:48 AM
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Re: What software has real color blending besides artrage?

Check out Revelle.

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Old 05-10-2019, 09:32 AM
tiago.dagostini tiago.dagostini is offline
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Re: What software has real color blending besides artrage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raichu
I am in the impression that most of them don't. I know Krita doesn't and coudnt find anything on search's.

If SAI gives grey then it mixes in RGB mode. It means yellow and blue acts as complementary colors. This is different from real life paints. Look at this video to see what artrage is doing: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...N8ZFOD4xbU2nov. It uses another calculations to blend.

Thank you for investigating the price point. It is not so different from artrage with the discount, though.




krita does it.. I know.. I have the code open in front of me and it is the correct formula. One thing that usually is not considered is that PIGMENT mixing also affect the value (because it s a real world interaction and the second law of thermodynamics is unbendable and will demand more losss of energy) while several softwares can pretend the entropy does not exist.


Also MULTIPLY blending mode might be the mode you want . ADDITION will GRAY out when you add another color over a color that is mostly a single channel. That is how the math indeed work for that.
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Last edited by tiago.dagostini : 05-10-2019 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:02 PM
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Re: What software has real color blending besides artrage?

Thank you Doug. I looked for it and artrage at 56 wins from rebelle at 89. It ends being the cheapest

Tiago, that's weird. I asked the developer and the very creator of the program said it was scrapped from the most recent versions of Krita because it was unstable. I've tried the blending modes at the time and no mode behaved like it. There was one that came closer, but still wasn't the deal, it might be multiply. I'm in the phone now, in my computer I can check this out.
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Old 05-10-2019, 02:07 PM
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Re: What software has real color blending besides artrage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raichu
Thank you Doug. I looked for it and artrage at 56 wins from rebelle at 89. It ends being the cheapest

Tiago, that's weird. I asked the developer and the very creator of the program said it was scrapped from the most recent versions of Krita because it was unstable. I've tried the blending modes at the time and no mode behaved like it. There was one that came closer, but still wasn't the deal, it might be multiply. I'm in the phone now, in my computer I can check this out.




Krita dropped simulating the value shift during the blend.. that yes (because that varies from medium to medium so you end up in a position where you cannot make everyone happy) . But it still get green as a result of combining blue and red when you multiply.
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Old 05-11-2019, 05:28 PM
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Re: What software has real color blending besides artrage?

Try Photoshop
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Old 05-12-2019, 02:33 PM
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Re: What software has real color blending besides artrage?







Multiply is another thing altogether. When it should be giving green, the color gives black (yellow+3) or a deeper green (yellow+2). Oranges (red+5) or puples (red+4) (red+7) also don't behave as expected.
It's not a blend mode meant to mimic real life color mixing.

...


Photoshop? Can you say what mode that would be? Because I searched and found nothing.
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Old 05-13-2019, 06:30 AM
tiago.dagostini tiago.dagostini is offline
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Re: What software has real color blending besides artrage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raichu






Multiply is another thing altogether. When it should be giving green, the color gives black (yellow+3) or a deeper green (yellow+2). Oranges (red+5) or puples (red+4) (red+7) also don't behave as expected.
It's not a blend mode meant to mimic real life color mixing.

...


Photoshop? Can you say what mode that would be? Because I searched and found nothing.




You mean a subtractive model? Subtractive model usually is not supported (at least completely) in software because it has no hard advantages and has a lot of complexities (When designing other tools like masks).


In digital you have all colors.. All available at instant.. no need to mix no need to buy tubes. You do not need to mix paints. You want to have green paint it green directly. The blend modes are there just to deal with the merging of the colors when a region connect to other (and for that multiply usually is enough so that you do not end up with a huge contrast at those parts)



If your intention if to paint a large area green.. it does not make sense in digital to put yellow and then blue for that.
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:26 AM
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Re: What software has real color blending besides artrage?

Have you tried Autodesk Sketchbook? That one is free. Artrage isn't that expensive though compared to some. I'm kicking myself for buying Corel Painter now that there are these free programs available. But maybe those free programs have their drawbacks. Blue and yellow do make green in Painter.
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:42 PM
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Re: What software has real color blending besides artrage?

Double post.
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Last edited by Raichu : 05-13-2019 at 10:01 PM.
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:58 PM
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Re: What software has real color blending besides artrage?

I saw the price for Corel Painter, and omg, almost fell off my chair!
I will test Sketchbook

Tiago, I may want to add a transparent blue instead of solid green, for example. Besides, I think in oil paint mode and that would ease my work.
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Old 05-19-2019, 04:53 PM
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Re: What software has real color blending besides artrage?

You could try the latest alpha release of MyPaint 2.0, I've been hacking in some of this pigment color stuff for a couple years now:
http://mypaint.org/blog/2019/01/26/MyPaint-2.0-alpha/



The default blending mode is now a 10-channel, spectrally upsampled non-linear weighted geometric mean model somewhat similar to a (simplified) Kubelka-Munk model. This model is described pretty well in the papers by Lionel Simonot and Mathieu Hébert:


(from Between additive and subtractive color mixings:
intermediate mixing models, Lionel Simonot and Mathieu Hébert 2013)

Most of the model that I implemented was described by Scott Allen Burns, but there were some important limitations to figure out around the alpha channel and optimizing for speed.
http://scottburns.us/subtractive-color-mixture/
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Old 05-28-2019, 07:46 AM
tiago.dagostini tiago.dagostini is offline
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Re: What software has real color blending besides artrage?

The problematic part of implementing such models in software is that several of the tools that we are used in software do not work (for example all the filters behave very badly.. very very badly because they are based on specific algebric properties that subtractive models .. screw up with) well with this model, so that results in a dicotomy of either you please the digital crowd.. or you please the traditionalists.
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