Home Forums Explore Media Oil Painting The Technical Forum Matte Medium instead of dry acrylic gesso

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  • #480047
    j1a
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        Hi, I’d like to use something different than the chaulk gesso because I have found that it can be re wet and turn back into liquid, flake off, wet and wiped off, crack, etc.

        I have preprimed universal roll linen canvas to begin with and want to raise the level to rid of threads and bumps. So in net search I see more about using matte medium as an alternative.

        What I’d like to know is:
        – If it is re wet will it come off
        – Has anyone noted that if a drip on the container flake off, can you crack a tiny piece in half,
        – does it adhere well to commercial preprimed surface as described
        – using 6b pencil to sketch, can it be wiped off with q-tip and moisture after (with universal this can be done)
        – any good technical observation of oil to matte medium adhesion archivalness

        Also – Different subject): So many people write of this and question about oils over acrylics, but not acrylics over oils and why. In the past, I came across a description of how this person used a microscope and could see how dry acrylic paint looked like tiny little balls (like a bunch of tennis balls in a box) in which like scoring clay and pressing wet clay in to it, it will lock in like a key – but more from the extra pressure squish) but so as with oil paint, it flows into those gap channels, and locks in when dry. This is why. Oil drys flat – nothing can get in, rides on surface.

        Thanks for your help! J :) :)

        #905228
        Delofasht
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            A moment here, I have never had a gesso dissolve when exposed to water after it has fully cured. This curing should take a couple weeks at the least, if you are wetting it within a day or two of drying to the touch, then it really has not had enough time to fully cure.

            As for matte medium vs chalk based acrylic priming dispersion (acrylic gesso), matte medium does work, and is fine overall, having enough tooth and solids content (silica if I recall correctly) to allow oil to fill the tooth created and make a good mechanical bond.

            Dried oil films do have a very small tooth, it just so happens that it is so fine a tooth that the larger acrylic molecules cannot sink into it and create that mechanical bond.

            - Delo Delofasht
            #905232
            j1a
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                I wish if there is second gessoing that it could be like the preprimed roll and meld into it, and be exactly like it. What brand do you use? Have been curious about liquitex (professional), compared to their basics which I have but never used, and jerrys…

                I don’t mean to scare anyone – I’m going to experiment with the basics again, dry it well to the preprimed and test again, this is an old bottle, but can see it is stretchier than I thought, maybe I’ll try the professional grade liquitex if even this works…

                ps – the pre observations came from a few weeks of drying, but with the chalkier…

                #905229
                Delofasht
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                    When it comes to acrylic gesso, I have almost always used Liquitex professional, as I find it takes less layers and formed a better resulting surface. Never had it come loose or dissolve at all, even with vigorous scrubbing with water or solvents, once it has fully cured of course.

                    This sounds more like an issue I have had with some pre-primed surfaces I have worked n in the past having some kind of invisible lubricant added over the priming to keep the packaging that the surface came in from sticking to the surface itself. I have used rubbing alcohol to remove such lubricants from the surface, which made for a much more accepting surface, to either acrylic gesso or other paints.

                    Now days I tend to just prime my own surfaces and avoid pre-primed ones unless it is for a specific client (who I always do work on the same brand of panel).

                    - Delo Delofasht
                    #905233
                    j1a
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                        Thank you! This sounds good. I kept looking after this, and also emailed liquitex about it. They also have matte medium liquid and wondered if that should go on first over preprimed layer, but thinking no. And, if the matte medium can be used in place of pva size, then do the liquitex gesso layers. I tried doing my own linen a while back and just decided to go for the pre made. But, lots of hair and dents from rollers, would like to try again at some point.

                        #905231
                        contumacious
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                            It sounds like you might enjoy painting on an alkyd ground…..

                            #905234
                            j1a
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                                Hi Contumacious :), I know of winsor newton I’ve experimented with, and since I use oils I know how it’s pushed a little to use oil ground, and would like that too. But, for the health of it, and from my first free styles oil on preprimed (cotton, didn’t know about linen back then) when I was in my teens, I have still today the same paintings that the oil has adhered to exactly the same and have tried picking at even with a pin, very nice, flat, varnished, still white paint white, colors bright, (another even rolled that was just from paint playing around, and tossed around through travels in life), and wanting the frame, another not varnished – the oil paint has really stuck all this time… I made this decision to not use oil ground…They’ve kept this long and as long as my coming up for public ones are handled nicely, I’ll let be as that… I do really wish I could, but the health issue bothered me from long term effect of lung and heart situations.

                                #905235
                                j1a
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                                    Want to Clarify This From First Post above: I was thinking about how it had time to dry and realized why : Because I live in a lower half-in-the-ground level apartment, I had a piece of primed on the floor in an area I don’t walk, it is damp down there. There’s a wall here between apartments that I put a frame on one night, on a nail, and it fell during the night because wall has dampness in it. Other walls are ok.

                                    The past few days I’ve doing final experiments with glue, and using my glass top coffee table with lights underneath to dry heat things better, did this today with the practice gesso ( I ordered some Pro Liquitex yesterday), and even ironed it to see what happened – dryer on top mostly, figure more real time curing will do it….

                                    #905237
                                    Richard P
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                                        Yep, damp will stop the paint drying.

                                        That amount of damp doesn’t sound good for your health either though!

                                        #905230
                                        Delofasht
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                                            Richard is right, damp will affect the drying of paint films dramatically, so will cold. Consider getting a dehumidifier to assist with drying paints.

                                            - Delo Delofasht
                                            #905236
                                            j1a
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                                                1.I do have problems with damp here for myself (!) 2.One thing I’m glad for now too is exactly that – my large bedroom gets nice and toasty because the apartment complexes hot water tank for our building is next to my wall and it very dry in there, am using now to put test pieces in there too…(and the heats on now in here too from weather),…Waiting for that Liquitex pro, rechecked the oil primer over the J gesso (with water) – stays put so well. I can understand gesso between can be encapsulated, and straight on primer are the three ways, also layering paint but takes more time to dry and thicker oil layer over all… I guess I am a water tester maybe from being in here, land here is wet and muddyish :), Thanks for your input and experiences…

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