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March 25, 2006 at 10:37 pm #985659
How much must pics be changed in order to avoid copyright infringement? I have a friend who’s a professional photographer and a pastel artist obviously took his photograph off the web, flipped it horizontally, took out a tree here and added another one there, changed the color scheme (quite a bit actually), and added a different sky.
It’s a very unusual and specific place, so there’s little doubt the artist used the photo (that is unless he went to Thailand and knew exactly where this particular mountain valley was). My friend’s upset, but I told him to forget about it, that it had been changed too much to worry about. But again, how much does something have to be changed before it’s infringement? Does flipping it and adding/subtracting a few things qualify?
Thanks very much for your thoughts….#####
Today's global warming hysteria is the hoax of the 21st century. H.L. Mencken had it right: "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and hence clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."March 26, 2006 at 7:15 am #1068985There is no such thing as a “how much to change to not infringe”. Whenever you take someone elses work without permission, it’s per definition copyright infringement. The question you pose is more about how things work in real life, as opposed to the rules and laws. Therefore, if noone can proof you took that other work, you wouldn’t be condmened by a court (it doesn’t safe you from legal expenses though, and possibly a hit on your reputation).
I don’t get how people are always after “fast” ways to make money (or whatever the reason) by stealing somone elses efforts, when all you need to do is ask
Your friend, being a photographer himself, should understand that it’s not ok to just take someone elses pictures.
"Madam, without you, life was like a broken pencil...it was pointless." - Edmund Blackadder to Queenie, BA2
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Spreadshirt shops: EU -- USAMarch 28, 2006 at 2:51 am #1068987I use the theory it must be change so much that the original artist doesn’t see his/her own work in it. Just switching around a few things ain’t enough. There is no % of change rule, if it looks like it or some elements of it came from the same image its copyright infringment. Could we have the links to the 2 images to see?…why? because i’m nosy
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March 30, 2006 at 2:19 pm #1068999Thanks so much to both of you for your replies. I’m sorry for the delay in replying myself. Okay, so I guess I was mixing up copyrights with product, vs copyright for an image. I didnt know there was such a dramatic difference between the two. With product you only to need to change it a certain percentage in order to be safe legally.
I would love to post pics to this, but my friend asked that I not do that, so I’m sorry about that.
THanks again!#####
Today's global warming hysteria is the hoax of the 21st century. H.L. Mencken had it right: "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and hence clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."April 3, 2006 at 2:42 pm #1068992what? I am not sure I understand what you mean “With product you only to need to change it a certain percentage in order to be safe legally.”
The copyright protecting a “product” is the same as those for an image, or for that matter a song, a book, a piece of software or a film.April 6, 2006 at 2:18 am #1069000what? I am not sure I understand what you mean “With product you only to need to change it a certain percentage in order to be safe legally.”
The copyright protecting a “product” is the same as those for an image, or for that matter a song, a book, a piece of software or a film.for instance you only have to change a jewelry design approx 30% to get around copyright laws…..so that’s why I wondered if the same was regarding images.
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Today's global warming hysteria is the hoax of the 21st century. H.L. Mencken had it right: "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and hence clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."April 8, 2006 at 8:29 am #1068977Well, that’s not true of jewellry designs here in the UK as far as I know (I have several jewellery designer friends) – the copyright is the same, with no % rule. So I would question a blanket 30% rule. (The US and UK laws are generally the same as they’re part of the Berne copyright convention.) That’s not to say that if something is changed 30% it won’t be different enough, it could be. It could be different enough with 10% changed, it just depends what’s changed and how identifiable it is compared to the original.
Perhaps there’s some mix-up here talking about copyright when ‘products’ might actually fall under patent or trademark laws? Those are different and would/could apply to more mass-produced items.
Tina.
Abstract coast and geology art: www.tina-m.com | Art/Science gallery: www.grejczikgallery.com
April 8, 2006 at 10:28 am #1068991I feel you were right to tell your friend to “let it go” – it is annoying when someone does that but it’s almost more of a moral issue than law breaking.
Just my opinion, of course.:owww.steinhausstudio.com
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April 10, 2006 at 7:00 am #1068993Just as Tina said above, and I said earlier, copyright applies to Jewelery or any other product just as much as to drawings or paintings. It is a complete myth about the percentage you must change to avoid a copyright infringment.
Have a look at this page, which answers copyright questions specific to Jewelery design:
http://www.jewelersresource.com/Business/Studio/Copyright.htmlFrom the page:
When is a copy an infringement?
The standard for infringement is that the piece is substantially similar and, of course, that the infringer copied the piece. There is no hard and fast standard of substantial similarity, but if the piece looks the same, even though it is not identical, it probably infringes (the rumors that it has to be 10% different are wrong: if the Mona Lisa were copyrighted, and you copied only the eyes and smile, it probably would still be infringement). A copyright lawyer should be consulted before any charges of infringement are made.April 24, 2006 at 1:11 pm #1068996My sister’s company that manufactures goofy dog and cat toys is CONSTANTLY ripped off. They do have a copyright attorney, and were told that a 20% change probably was enough not to have a case. They have been ripped off by pretty much most of the big pet companies, too, and those guys know just how far to go before it gets tricky.
Lynn[/COLOR]
[FONT=Lucida Console]L Y N N[FONT=Lucida Console] -[/B][/COLOR] D I G B Y
[/B]April 25, 2006 at 1:50 pm #1069001My sister’s company that manufactures goofy dog and cat toys is CONSTANTLY ripped off. They do have a copyright attorney, and were told that a 20% change probably was enough not to have a case. They have been ripped off by pretty much most of the big pet companies, too, and those guys know just how far to go before it gets tricky.
Hi Lynn – yes, I’m too familaiar with that sort of thing. I’m truly sorry for you guys on that. I have heard that a 30% change, even as regards to size changes, means it’s not worth pursuing.
But if you want to hear something even sadder, we know a gal who’s a creative genius when it comes to jewelry. She has her own designs manufactured, however, she tired of doing all the assembly work and submitted her work to a large jewelry company in the hopes they would distribute for her. They not only rejected her, they blatantly ripped off several of her designs exactly, having them manufactured on a huge scale in China. She hired an attorney, and they had their FIVE attorneys, and by changing venues, and appealing and delaying, they finally wore her out after 2 years and she had to quit as she was allowing it to actually destroy her physical and mental well-being….. plus she paid over $10,000 to her lawyer, and all for nothing.
“Liberty and justice for all” (All the rich, that is)Anyway, that’s why I origianlly asked about images and copying them. I’m afraid it would be mighty hard for a defendant to prove anything….especially by changing a few things around with a differet color scheme, etc.
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Today's global warming hysteria is the hoax of the 21st century. H.L. Mencken had it right: "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and hence clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."April 25, 2006 at 2:02 pm #1068984Q: “How much must pics be changed in order to avoid copyright infringement?”
A: Enough that no one can tell.
https://PaintingsByTom.etsy.com
https://GeeksBearingGiftsTNA.etsy.comApril 27, 2006 at 2:37 pm #1068995Hi,
When I want to use someone elses photo that is not public domain, I ask for it. it goes without saying that the copyright is always of the owner of the photo and/or owner of the rights.
I can tell you that I had my request denied more than once and I don’t have another choice but to respect that.
Honesty can open many doors, don’t forget it.Regards,
José
I'm not lazy because I sleep until late. I just dream alot.
May 22, 2006 at 2:44 am #1069002:rolleyes: When I (I’m ashamed to say) used to write for the National Enquirer I wrote an article called the 10 most common places people hide their valuables according to a burglar. It was my idea. But the burglar wouldn’t say what the Enquirer wanted him to say and they killed it. I got a small kill fee. Some time later, after I copyrighted the article and printed it elsewhere, the National Enquirer printed the article, written by someone else, but all my burglars places were there. . . .
I tried asking for payment. They said no. I threatened to sue for copyright infringement. They didn’t reply. I imagine they were laughing at me.
The reason they could laugh is the loser of a copyright suit pays all court costs, etc. So I could not afford to sue because I could not afford to lose to a company with millions.So point #1. A copyright infringement is not something you can pop into small claims court about. The minimum award is $250,000 or it was when I took a course on the subject. So we are talking big money for court costs and lawyers.
Subpoint #1 If you get ripped off by someone without enough money to pay and sue them, you’ll end up paying the costs anyway.
The FBI is no use, by the way. when I called them to complain about an infringement long long ago (it is illegal too) they told me unless I was a major movie company they would not bother to help me.
:o There are other concerns. A jewelry design or even a still life where you arranged your apples oranges and bottles in special way might be a lot easier to protect (it may not be practical to sue someone copying your still life arrangement onto cards sold on Ebay, but you may be able to stop them from distributing.)
However, you can’t copyright found objects, things you did not create. You can copyright a photo of a person, or an ancient artifact that you composed and lit, but you did not create the face, nor the artifact. Scanning and publishing an exact copy of your photo is clearly wrong. But we get into unclear areas when they paint (or pastel in this case) the person in your photo.
Someone could argue that any photo of a person in real life is non-fiction (journalism) and fair use applies…. That the face, and the sunlight that day was created by God, not you, and thus in the public domain. Or that they were out on the same day and saw your and your model and drew her from memory.
So I would ask how much creativity do you feel comfortable in borrowing from someone else?
May 23, 2006 at 9:38 pm #1068979:rolleyes: So I would ask how much creativity do you feel comfortable in borrowing from someone else?
Priceless. If everyone would ask themself that question BEFORE using ANYONE else’s work but their own, Oh! What a WONDERFUL world this would be…
~M
Madster
Change is inevitable, Growth is optional. -
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