Home Forums Explore Media Pastels Materials Framing Pastel the French Way??

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  • #987258
    halthepainter
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        Once after a pastel workshop, I was given a handout on various ways to frame pastels. I was intrigued by the French Method. This method places the glass in the frame, the pastel is full frame, and pastel is laid directly on the glass and never moved. The benefit is no possibility of dust on a mat and less distortion, especially if using a low glare glass. Of course you must insure there will be no slippage between glass and pastel. I haven’t had the courage to try this.
        Has anyone out in the WC world tried this and if so were you happy with the results?

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        #1103731
        Colorix
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            Hal, I’ve tried it, am trying it, but the experiment has only been in place for two months. However, my mother’s husband has a pastel framed this way, and it looks perfect after 50+ years. Today I saw two pastels from the 1700s, no mat, but I couldn’t see if they had spacers. Excellent condition, they were in.

            But, I’m in Sweden, and our climate is dry, and *very* dry in winter with central heating and all.

            In more humid climates, the danger is condensation inside the glass causing mildew growth on the pastel. I would never dare to frame against the glass in Rochester, NY, for example, where summer “air” condense on your body!

            I’ve been thinking, though… if one uses a humidity-proof backing, and tape all the way around the edges of glass-painting-backing, so that nothing gets in, wouldn’t that work? There are framing tapes made of clear pastic.

            Let’s see what the others say.

            Charlie

            Charlie's Site/Blog

            #1103733
            halthepainter
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                I think if you really sealed the back and edges, humidity wouldn’t be a problem. I seriously doubted spacers were used on the pastels from the 1700. Thank you for responding. I just may get up the courage to give it a try.

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                #1103726
                Tressa
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                    I live in one of the most humid areas there is on the East Coast, and I have done this with no problem. The key is taping all around the edges and making sure you get it straight, and not too wide. It takes some practice.
                    Also a tight fit.
                    Tressa

                    My Webpage: www.zhibit.org/treshommel
                    Blog:http://leonardosloft.blogspot.com/
                    Test
                    "We derive more benefit from having our faults pointed out by our enemies than from hearing the opinions of friends." (Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519)

                    #1103734
                    halthepainter
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                        As someone who has moved houses frequently, it worries me. If the glass breaks – as glass does – you will loose much of the top layer of the work.

                        Marie has this ever happened to you? I would think the pastels would have a greater affinity for the paper. (I’m guessing)

                        Also, thank you Tressa.

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                        #1103743
                        PeggyB
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                            Ok – an “artist/framer” is responding… to put it simply – don’t do it. Marie‘s point is well taken regarding breakage of the glass and loss of pastel. The possiblity of mold is pretty high too. You’ve probably heard many times that paper needs to “breath” and that means “air space”. There is no way to completely seal the framing to eliminate the accumulation of humidity. If you could do that, the paper itself would eventually dry out, maybe shrink and then you’d loose pastel too. Yes, there are long lived pastels framed with this method as Charlie has noted. However, they seem to be more the exception than the rule. Temporarily framing this way is probably ok, but I wouldn’t want to sell one. Can you imagine what the client would think if the glass broke and the image was ruined?

                            FrameSpace is an easy economical product to use, and allows just enough air space to keep the pastels and paper “happy”. If you want to use a non-reflective glass I don’t recommend old fashioned “nonglare glass” because no matter how close you get the glass to the paper there is a distortion of image and shift of color. Tru Vue conservation reflection control is a better choice so long as the glass and image are within no more than 1/4 inch of one another. Of course Tru Vue Museum glass is best, but only if you have the inclination to pay a whole lot of money for it or are in the framing business and can purchase it wholesale (and even then it is about 10 times the price of regular glass)… :eek:

                            One thing to remember if you are going to use FrameSpace or another like product is that you should adhesive mount your paper on foam board or gator board before painting on it. You will need the ridgidity to hold the paper in place behind the spacers. Yes if you’ve already painted the picture you can still mount it, but not as easily and you may have to “touch up” the image before framing.

                            Peggy

                            Peggy Braeutigam, IAPS/MC
                            www.peggybraeutigam.com

                            #1103727
                            Tressa
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                                clarify…I have these in my own house, have a de-humidifier, and have never sold one; try not to frame my selling stuff myself..unless I am in starving artist mode…I have an artist friend who is a framer, and we split cost on glass etc… and he does the matcutting all that measuring stuff…and I don’t have to think about it, yuck.

                                My Webpage: www.zhibit.org/treshommel
                                Blog:http://leonardosloft.blogspot.com/
                                Test
                                "We derive more benefit from having our faults pointed out by our enemies than from hearing the opinions of friends." (Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519)

                                #1103735
                                halthepainter
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                                    Peggy you seem to have given the definitive answer. I’ll continue using the spacers and or mats. I always back my pastels with acid free foam core.

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                                    #1103744
                                    PeggyB
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                                        Peggy you seem to have given the definitive answer. I’ll continue using the spacers and or mats. I always back my pastels with acid free foam core.

                                        :lol: :lol: :lol: Well Hal I don’t ever claim to have a “definative” answer, but thank you all the same. What I do have is experience in some ways others may not or know of someone else who does, and I’m happy if I’ve been of assistance to others.

                                        Thank you Marie for the website with further information. It is always good to have a second source as back up information to what I’ve written for items of importantance.

                                        Aw come on Tres – are you sure you wouldn’t like to try some of that “measuring and cutting” stuff? :lol: No? Well if I didn’t know how to do it, there are times I’d wish for someone else to do it for me. However, I don’t trust just anyone to handle pastels and no longer have anyone in this area to trade with so I get the joy of the whole project. I guess I don’t find it all that bad since I decided a couple weeks ago to turn my basement framing shop into a commercial concern. I’ll be framing for artists at prices that are much better than any they can get from other framers in this area. I did some comparison shopping, and was aghast at the mark-up in framing! :eek:

                                        Peggy

                                        Peggy Braeutigam, IAPS/MC
                                        www.peggybraeutigam.com

                                        #1103728
                                        Tressa
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                                            Oh no Peggy! Remember that left-brained discussion we had:evil: ?
                                            The mark up is huge in framing, you will be a God-send to artists in your area!
                                            And my friend David has a large room in his basement also. He caught a deal on a shop going out of business and has a professional mat cutter, all the framing tools etc…I will be in trouble if he up and moves or something:eek:

                                            My Webpage: www.zhibit.org/treshommel
                                            Blog:http://leonardosloft.blogspot.com/
                                            Test
                                            "We derive more benefit from having our faults pointed out by our enemies than from hearing the opinions of friends." (Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519)

                                            #1103723

                                            I use that method on small paintings (5″x7″ and smaller) and have had no problems. For larger paintings I use EconoSpace….love it!

                                            Paula Ann Ford

                                            My Blog
                                            Manager of OnlineJuriedShows.com, IAPS Show Chair, Assoc. Member PSA, Member Pastel Society of Colorado, Member Adirondack Pastel Society
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                                            #1103736
                                            halthepainter
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                                                Thank you Paula, that also sounds reasonable. Such a small frame seems a lot less likely to have glass breakage. By the way did your husband look at my “Into the Sunset” painting. If he didn’t like it, just ignore this portion of my post.
                                                Hal :wink2:

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                                                #1103724

                                                Hi Hal,
                                                Nope, he hasn’t been home in 4 or 5 days. He’ll be home late, late tomorrow night. I’ll have him look on Saturday! :D :wave:

                                                Paula Ann Ford

                                                My Blog
                                                Manager of OnlineJuriedShows.com, IAPS Show Chair, Assoc. Member PSA, Member Pastel Society of Colorado, Member Adirondack Pastel Society
                                                [/SIZE]

                                                #1103745
                                                PeggyB
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                                                    I use that method on small paintings (5″x7″ and smaller) and have had no problems. For larger paintings I use EconoSpace….love it!

                                                    EconoSpace is another variation of FrameSpace. They both have advantages. Some people have trouble getting the FrameSpace in place on the edges of the glass, and some people have trouble keeping the EconoSpace adhesive attached to the side of the frame (if used that way) or they don’t like sticking it to the glass (if used that way). I on the other hand use them interchangeably. EconoSpace comes in incurments of 1/8 inch up to 3/8 inch. FrameSpace comes 1/8, 3/16, 1/2, and 3/4 inch so between the two of them there are lots of choices.

                                                    Yes Tres, I do remember the conversation regarding left brain… :lol: Some of us just can’t help being a little bit both ways… I can use either hand to paint and write also… :evil:

                                                    Peggy

                                                    Peggy Braeutigam, IAPS/MC
                                                    www.peggybraeutigam.com

                                                    #1103737
                                                    halthepainter
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                                                        I have tried frame space and didn’t care for it. I use the econo space and stick it on the glass. Perhaps I apply it a little differently than the people who don’t like it on the glass. I place the glass in the frame, tight against the bottom of the frame but centered between the two vertical edges. I apply the econo space on the glass but with a non adhesive edge touching the frame. This keeps the glass from shifting in the frame and also keeps the econo space from becoming noticable to the viewer.

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