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May 9, 2005 at 8:25 pm #984995
I mainly work in acrylic paint, sometimes thinned out to use more like watercolor in layers and washes. I am interested in gouache but have never used it before. Could one get a similiar effect to gouche if painting in acrylic and then spraying it with a matte varnish when finished for the matte effect. Or get the same sort of effect another way? I am looking to do some work that will need the matte appearance that gouache has. Since I am already very comfortable in working in acrylic though I would rather get it in this medium.
May 9, 2005 at 9:15 pm #1051556Some suggestions:
Opaque Medium has a very dull matte finish.
Adding some matte medium may do the sameI would use caution about using a matt finish at the end as it can alter some details.
There is a matt acrylic gouache that you may consider.
Don’t know if this will be of any assistance but it might
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"The thing about art is that life is in no danger of being meaningless," Robert GennMay 10, 2005 at 1:17 am #1051560If you have a bit to spare, then I would buy some gouache. Gouache is, by far, the easiest medium to work with. The beauty of gouache is that is sits on the surface of the paper and can be rewetted and moved around or lifted off even when dry. That milky look that you get from gouache will be difficult to achieve with acrylic, but I guess a matt varnish might take away the natural shine that one has inacrylic.
May 10, 2005 at 3:19 am #1051547When I was interviewing artists for my book “Watercolour Innovations”, which showcases the work of 8 top UK artists using watermedia, I found quite a few who used acrylics, and the finished look of their works was much like works done with gouache. It might have been to do with the surfaces they used … but also, it was mostly to do with the fact that the works were done on either heavy watercolour paper, or on board, like Mount Board, and then framed under glass.
The reflective surface of glass “takes over” from the glossy surface of acrylic paint, and you don’t know, then, whether the image was painted with acrylics or with gouache.
the advtange of using acrylics, over gouache, is that acrylics wont lift previously painted layers; gouache sometimes does, it is not waterproof. The “scumbled” sky in the Manhatten painting below is a good example, and you can see the layering at work in the Baltic City pic. (lots more in the book …for more info about the book – click in my sig line).
J
May 10, 2005 at 12:35 pm #1051557Thank you for the information on gouache vs. acrylic. What brand of gouache do you prefer and why? I am not sure which to try yet.
May 10, 2005 at 1:05 pm #1051552I am interested in gouache but have never used it before.
Hi John2. I primarily work in gouache. I also paint with acryllic and like the varied characteristics of both.
Technically, gouache is an opaque watercolor (very similar to tempra) in that it is made up of pigment and clay (mind you, that is a VERY simple description). It dries to a velvety matte finish. I love the way it works, looks and blends. It is a bit unstable when dry and must be protected under glass. I do not varnish it, as I had a disastrous experience with gouache matte varnish – once.
Acryllic is NOT a watercolor, even though it works with water. It is more of a plastic or resin-type paint, and is much “tougher” when dry than gouache. And acryllic tends to dry glossy, but depending on how you thin or handle it, it will dry with an uneven finish. You can add a matte medium to it if you want to achieve the velvet finish of qouache, but it only simulates it, not is that fabulous look that gouache has.
In my humble opinion, just try the gouache. I’ll help.
- Wendy
"It works 'cause I don't know any better."
Cicuye StudiosMay 10, 2005 at 1:12 pm #1051553What brand of gouache do you prefer and why? I am not sure which to try yet.
I use Winsor Newton Designer Gouache. Most commercial artists prefer this brand as the colors seem to be much more stable and saturated, especially for reproductions. Some of the other brands can get a little too chalky or the colors don’t look very clear when used. I also use the metallic gouaches for fine line work and details.
The colors blend and thin beautifully. Layers can be worked or reworked – but just like any other medium, can get muddy or wear into the support (paper) and make a mess. I’ve not painted with gouache on canvas, but have used all sorts of papers: rice, coconut, paper towels, cardboard, illustration board, etc.
- Wendy
"It works 'cause I don't know any better."
Cicuye StudiosMay 10, 2005 at 1:49 pm #1051554Holbein Acryla Gouache uses an acrylic emulsion instead of gum arabic for the binder, and it is impossible to tell from the paint surface that it is not traditional gouache. It is somewhat water resistant when dry, but not to the extent of conventional acrylic paint. This facilitates layering.
However, I prefer traditional gouache because there are useful techniques which depend on the paint remaining water soluble. For example, hard edges can be softened by working over them with a wet brush. Moreover, you don’t lose the paint if it dries on your palette. I use Da Vinci gouache. It’s a lot cheaper than Winsor & Newton.
C&C is welcome.
RichardMay 11, 2005 at 2:11 am #1051548About acrylic drying glossy … I recently tackled an acrylic on canvas, and it has the look of an oil painting, but a mat one, I was quite surprised. I have seen acrylic done on paper specially prepared for acrylics, and they were really glossy.
John, you said originally that you would like the look of gouache, but using acrylics…so that is why I posted what I did above, and offer this comment now. Others seem to be trying to persuade you to switch to gouache, when what you asked for is the LOOK of gouache! Switching to gouache means extra expense, and you may not want to do that, having invested in your acrylics. And my point is that you do not need to switch; you CAN achieve a mat look with acrylics, if you consider the surface carefully. I am not sure it will show up, but these are acrylics, and there is no shine to the surface at all, they were done on canvas:
J
May 11, 2005 at 12:44 pm #1051558Thank you for all the comments on my questions. I have been working in acrylic on stretched canvas, usually first laying down solid layers and then doing thinner washes over them to get the look I want. I am now working on some ideas for paintings that I will be doing on cold press water color paper, but need a matte finish for them. It seems like it would be easier to just stay with acrylic and use a matte medium, to try for the look of gouache but I am interested in how different that would be than just using gouache. And if the look I would get would be not as good as with gouache? I don’t want to have to spend a lot of time learning a new medium right now though and wonder how different working in gouache would be from what I have been painting with acrylics.
May 11, 2005 at 12:48 pm #1051559P.S.
My main concern with switching to gouache is if I would have trouble pulling up the lower layers trying to put in washes on top? For my style of really like to work that way. It sounds like different brands may vary in how much you can do this. Any info. is greatly appreciated!
May 11, 2005 at 2:13 pm #1051549I am now working on some ideas for paintings that I will be doing on cold press water color paper, but need a matte finish for them. It seems like it would be easier to just stay with acrylic and use a matte medium, to try for the look of gouache…
Hi John, it can be quite difficult to get the dead-matt appearance of gouache in acrylics just by adding matt medium; depending on the brand you’re using the amount of medium you would have to add could make quite a difference in the opacity of the paint (mediums generally increasing transparency). And in my experience some matt mediums don’t mean ‘matt’ in the way a gouache painter would understand it
…but I am interested in how different that would be than just using gouache. And if the look I would get would be not as good as with gouache? …wonder how different working in gouache would be from what I have been painting with acrylics.
You would need to use both to know for sure, side by side ideally; personal mileage varies. IMO painting in gouache is really very difficult (little room for error) but it depends on how exactly you use them.
My main concern with switching to gouache is if I would have trouble pulling up the lower layers trying to put in washes on top?
Yes, very much so in some cases.
My recommendation is if you want the sort of finish that gouache is associated with but you want to paint in the manner that you’re accustomed to then one of the matt acrylics is the way to go. In addition to the one Richard mentions above there are matt acrylics made by Golden and Liquitex, plus Flashe from L&F, but my suggestion would be Jo Sonja artists’ acrylics[/URL], these used to be called acrylic gouache for exactly the reason you’d suppose – reliable dead matt finish but in an acrylic paint. I’ve used them a bit and they’re very good overall, good price too in comparison to other 2oz tubes of acrylic indented for artists.
Einion
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May 11, 2005 at 4:37 pm #1051555…..Others seem to be trying to persuade you to switch to gouache, when what you asked for is the LOOK of gouache…..
And I was fresponding to the post:
Thank you for the information on gouache vs. acrylic. What brand of gouache do you prefer and why? I am not sure which to try yet.
C&C is welcome.
RichardMay 11, 2005 at 5:41 pm #1051550I have been working in acrylic on stretched canvas, usually first laying down solid layers and then doing thinner washes over them to get the look I want.
Gouache isn’t really suited for that kind of technique. It’s meant to be applied directly and opaquely. If washes are used, they’re used in the beginning, with thicker layers of paint applied on top. Washes applied on top won’t lift bottom layers if you do it very quickly, but they don’t look good. They can appear chalky, and even powder off.
There’s no good way to get an acrylic to look like a gouache. I’ve worked in both extensively, and no one will ever mistake the plastic surface of acrylic for the velvety softness of gouache, no matter what I do. However, if all you want is a matte surface, then many good suggestions have been given.
Tami
May 11, 2005 at 8:58 pm #1051551Hi John,
Einion has given you excellent advice – use Jo Jonja acrylics. I have used them quite a bit. They are artist quality paints but are primarily intended for the craft market. They dry to a reliable matt finish but behave in all other respects like a normal acrylic paint. They are maunfactured by Chroma, who also produce Atelier ( my main acrylic paint) and are very reasonably priced.Chroma also produce a line called Absolute Matte which they claim to be neither gouche nor acrylic but having the character of both. This may be the ideal line of paint you are after. An artist friend of mine has used them ( he was given some by a supplier to try out) but he disliked the very matt finish.
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