Home Forums Explore Media Oil Painting The Technical Forum Oil paint tiers

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  • #480945
    shimshir
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        Hi everybody, this is my first post here, but I have been reading this forum for a longer time now and find it very informative and helpful.

        My question is this, could you give me a “tier” list of good oil paint brands, in your opinion of course, where the tiers are price/use-case segments, say:

        Expensive, when you make more money with the paints than you spend to buy them

        Mid-range, painting is a hobby, but good quality materials are important to you

        Cheap, you just wanna create a lot of paintings to get the hang of it, but you still value a good painting experience

        Please note that I live in Germany and my access to UK/US-made brands is quite limited (price-wise, with shipping costs and all I mean).

        I have seen many threads like this, but people usually tend to go straight to the premium brands with their recommendations. There must be good oil paint beside Old Holland, Michael Harding, Vasari and the like.

        As a bonus question, what paints would you buy from a shop like https://www.boesner.com/farben/farben/oelfarben or https://www.modulor.de/en/paints/oil-paints/, for each of those tiers?

        Thanks in advance.

        #914819
        Jeffro Jones
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            you just wanna create a lot of paintings to get the hang of it.

            Forget your tiers. Use good paint. You don’t get the hang of good paint by using bad paint, capiche?
            You’re in Germany? Schmincke. They’re excellent paint manufacturers.

            As a bonus question, what paints would you buy…

            As a bonus answer I will tell you: Schmincke. They are AWESOME paints. Good luck to you in your efforts :)

            :::

            #914862
            marioz
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                I haven’t tried many brands, but my experience may be useful anyway.
                Remember that prices vary considerably in different countries, usually local brands cost less. I tend to avoid super-expensive brands, in my experience they are not worth the big extra cost.

                In the Expensive range, I think Talens Rembrandt are among the cheapest, and are usually very good. Here in Italy “Maimeri Artisti” has similar quality and price, but I think it’s more difficult to find abroad.

                If you are from Germany, Lukas 1862 is probably good quality and relatively cheap: it contains wax, which may help to keep the price low. I prefer no wax in my colors, but if you don’t mind, they are fine. I would put them in the middle range.

                In the cheap(ish) range, Maimeri Classico and Talens Van Gogh are pretty decent paints (Maimeri classico is particularly cheap here in Italy).

                Some (obvious) advice for saving money: buy large tubes, avoid cadmium and cobalt colors, paint on paper (paper for oil painting, not ordinary paper).

                #914863
                marioz
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                    Schmincke. They’re excellent paint manufacturers.
                    As a bonus answer I will tell you: Schmincke. They are AWESOME paints

                    The point is: which Schmincke range? I agree that it is wise/safe to stick to a good brand (like Schmincke and Talens), and choose the product according to the money you want to spend, but I don’t agree that you should always buy the most expensive product. I mean: don’t buy bad paint, but if the paint is decent, that’s enough (good brands usually don’t make bad paints). I’ve seen good artists making very good painting with “cheap” paint, and poor artists spending huge amounts of money for paints they simply didn’t deserve. If you are a beginner, a decent paint is all you need.
                    Don’t rely on materials, rely on your capabilities.

                    #914867
                    shimshir
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                        Thanks for the answers so far, I am currently using mostly W&N Winton and two tubes Talens – Art Creation, I am quite happy with the W&N, but I thought about getting a Cadmium Yellow Light and Cadmium Red Light from the Van Gogh series, because I feel like the Talens AC Yellow that I have (Yellow Lemon) has very poor covering/tinting strength.

                        Here is my latest work I have been able to do with Ultramarine blue, Perm. Alizarin Crimson, Burnt Umber from W&N Winton, and Titanium White and Lemon Yellow from Talens Art Creation.

                        #914849
                        ilya K
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                            In Germany, Gerstaecker (kreativ.de) is on average the cheapest. If you have a store where you live, their stores normally have the same price like online, plus some clearance sales. Boesner has noticeaby higher prices.

                            I wanted to buy Schmincke Norma but decided against that because they claim to add up to 5% solvent into the paint. (Info provided by their lab manager, in case someone wants to say it’s not true). Akademie is no solvents.

                            The choice depends on the way you will paint. I want the paint to be very soft. The answer to that is Rembrandt – very good but costs more, or Van Gogh, or Georgian, or Maimeri Classico. The last three are cheap and good enough.

                            If you are just starting, Gerstaecker currently has Fabriano Tela oil paper for a very good price. I tried it and I wish I had it from very beginning. It is the best and cheapest support to start, in my opinion.

                            Ilya K
                            C&C always welcome

                            #914850
                            ilya K
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                                Oh…. if you paint like above, then you are no beginner, you actually have to GIVE advice about paint to others :)

                                Ilya K
                                C&C always welcome

                                #914868
                                shimshir
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                                    Oh…. if you paint like above, then you are no beginner, you actually have to GIVE advice about paint to others :)

                                    Thanks, I started a year or so ago, but did some drawing before that. The reason I am asking questions about materials (i.e. paints) now is that I kinda ignored that whole discussion, student vs. artist grade, this pigment vs. that pigment, 2 or 3 layers of gesso, etc. up until now because I wanted to learn the fundamentals of painting in general first.

                                    #914834
                                    JCannon
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                                        “Please note that I live in Germany and my access to UK/US-made brands is quite limited (price-wise, with shipping costs and all I mean).”

                                        Does this apply to Winsor & Newton? For some years now, ever since the buy-out by ColArts (a Scandinavian firm), those paints have been manufactured in France, in the same factory where LeFranc Bourgeois are made. You can’t really go wrong with good old W&N.

                                        I’m a bit jealous of shimsir, since some high-end European paints are cheaper for him than they would be for me. I’m thinking of Blockx, Mameiri Puro, Charvin and the like.

                                        I’ve tried Sennelier, a mid-priced French brand, and was quite impressed. My one tube of Rembrandt — PR264, an Alizarin Crimson substitute — remains very serviceable, though I’ve come to like PR177 just a smidgen more.

                                        I hear that Van Gogh is a good student line, but I’ll probably never sample them. Here in America, Winton and Gamblin 1980 are easier to come by.

                                        Many years ago, I acquired a few tubes of Schmincke and was unimpressed. Just didn’t handle well. Maybe I should give ’em another try. On the other hand, remember Dali’s advice: “Avoid Dammar like the pest!”

                                        Finally, one should put in a word for the Russian brand Nevskaya Palitra “Masterclass,” which I’ve not tried. Alex (Gigalot), a regular here, is from Georgia and he raves about that line, which includes some rare pigments available only in Russia. These paints can be purchased rather inexpensively via Ebay, with free or cheap shipping. At least, that’s the case in America; you can probably get a similar deal in Germany.

                                        I would add that many professional artists find uses for even the cheapest paints. Many look to the student lines for the most powerful pigments, such as the Pthalos or Diox purple or the Mars colors. The student versions of these colors may actually be easier to handle. For other pigments — the cads, Cerulean, Manganese Violet, ochre, the umbers — I would advise paying for quality paint, if you can afford to do so.

                                        Incidentally, the best paint I’ve ever used was Langridge, made in Australia. But it’s not cheap!

                                        #914869
                                        shimshir
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                                            Does this apply to Winsor & Newton? For some years now, ever since the buy-out by ColArts (a Scandinavian firm), those paints have been manufactured in France, in the same factory where LeFranc Bourgeois are made. You can’t really go wrong with good old W&N.

                                            I hear that Van Gogh is a good student line, but I’ll probably never sample them. Here in America, Winton and Gamblin 1980 are easier to come by.

                                            W&N is probably the most available brand globally, I do like them, but I thought about getting Van Gogh cad yellow and cad red, as they seem to be the real cad pigment and not a hue as the w&n versions.

                                            #914851
                                            ilya K
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                                                The German online store I mentioned sells the Russian paint too. Yes, it is cheap for a good paint. One probably has to be careful and check the exact pigments behind the fancy names, on the manufacturer site. Also, I’ve read that they are stiff and need to be thinned.

                                                Also look at pyrrole pigments as non-toxic replacement for cadmium reds. Both Georgian and Van Gogh have PR254.

                                                Ilya K
                                                C&C always welcome

                                                #914835
                                                Richard P
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                                                    He means W&N artist oils, not the winton range which is student grade.

                                                    #914870
                                                    shimshir
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                                                        See, I’ve always wondered about the toxicity of cadmium paint, doing a few google searches about studies tells me that it might be severely overstated, especially for a hobbyist painter.

                                                        #914810
                                                        AnnieA
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                                                            Some of the answer to the question has to do with how you want to paint as well. For painting with a number of thin layers, for instance, you might want a more creamy paint with a higher pigment load (such as perhaps Gamblin 1980, the student grade, but you’d probably want the higher pigment load of Gamblin’s artist grade), while if you want to paint in a thicker, impasto style, you’ll want a thicker paint (W&N Winton is a very good choice here, or the W&N artist grade). Further, if you want to paint very large, many artists will use a less expensive brand and I’ve specifically heard that many use Winton.

                                                            I don’t have a wide experience with different brands, so if this is an issue you’d like to consider perhaps you could identify your preferred painting style (or how you’re planning to paint) and then ask others here for their recommendations. I do know that Gamblin 1980 cadmium paints contain an actual cadmium, but also some other pigment as well. This is probably because their earlier student version used pure cadmium, but because of expense, they added filler which resulted in a paint with too low a pigment load. So a number of years ago they changed the name to “1980” and added a second sort of “booster” pigment so that the pigment load was stronger. I can’t comment on how they work in comparison to regular cadmiums, but strongly suspect that other manufacturers of student paints probably do the same thing. FYI, where cadmiums are almost absolutely required is portraiture and figure painting, where their ability to create muted but rich colors that describe skin tones ver well is prized by many artists.

                                                            Also, two good sources of information about which specific pigments go into a particular paint are 1) the Blick[/URL] site (you need to navigate to the brand and specific paint you’re considering and then click on “pigment” where you’ll be taken to a swatch and a list of the pigments contained and their characteristics); or, 2) the Color of Art Database, which lists an incredibly comprehensive lists of individual pigments under broad color categories, such as “Blue” or “Red” and then you can find specific paints (often with a link to the Blick site) listed in the database by pigment number.

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                                                            #914833
                                                            JCannon
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                                                                “…and not a hue as the w&n versions.”

                                                                Actually, W&N’s pro line offers real cads. I can attest to the quality of this[/URL].

                                                                Even Winton, their student line, offers genuine PR108. See here[/URL].

                                                                Van Gogh does offer real cads. If you compare this swatch[/URL] to this swatch[/URL], it seems that the Winton may have higher tinting strength. Obvioiusly, the only way to tell for sure is to compare the actual paint.

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