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Old 04-02-2012, 02:19 PM
Improv Improv is offline
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Trouble Learning Proportion Sizing

Hello. I decided to get serious about learning how to draw and am taking Michael Britton's Art Academy Beginning to Draw course.

I'm writing this post because I am having trouble accurately measuring objects for drawing their proportions.

For example-I take a drawing of a six inch square and pin it to the wall 6-8 feet away from my easel. Both easel and picture are at eye level. I then use a paint brush and my thumb to eye ball the size and transfer it to paper.

My problem is that I am measuring the 6" square as only about two inches square! Is it my inexperience, my eyesight, or something else?

Thanks in advance.

Doug
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:30 PM
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Re: Trouble Learning Proportion Sizing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Improv
....

My problem is that I am measuring the 6" square as only about two inches square! Is it my inexperience, my eyesight, or something else?

Doug,
It is a physical fact that objects look smaller when further away, that is the foundation of linear perspective. It looks as if you confound two kinds of "sizes". As said in the title, you are doing proportional sizing, that will not give you the absolute size. If the form you drew on the paper is a square, you're doing fine, the proportion of width to height is correct. Now choose another height for the square on your paper, estimate the correct width, step back and measure the proportions of your drawing as you did the reference. Correct if necessary. Of course this becomes more important with more involved proportions
Keep up the good work
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:48 PM
Improv Improv is offline
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Re: Trouble Learning Proportion Sizing

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnoud3272
Doug,
It is a physical fact that objects look smaller when further away, that is the foundation of linear perspective. It looks as if you confound two kinds of "sizes".

Not quite sure what you mean by 'Confound'. Do you mean confuse?

Quote:
As said in the title, you are doing proportional sizing, that will not give you the absolute size. If the form you drew on the paper is a square, you're doing fine, the proportion of width to height is correct. Now choose another height for the square on your paper, estimate the correct width, step back and measure the proportions of your drawing as you did the reference. Correct if necessary. Of course this becomes more important with more involved proportions
Keep up the good work

Thanks for confirming that I'm not crazy!
I started second guessing myself. I thought "If the original square fits on a sheet of 8.5 x 11 inch paper, then I should get the same size square on my drawing paper after I estimate it. "

Honestly, the brain works in funny ways!

Thanks again, Arnoud!
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:22 PM
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Re: Trouble Learning Proportion Sizing

Arnopud has explained the method very well,Doug.

Basically at this proportional size sighting method you are the one who choose the unit of porportion or unit of reference. Let`s say that you want to draw a chair.

You meassure one leg of the chair and that is your unit of proportion or reference. You translate that unit to the paper by meassuring it with your pencil or brush , whatever you like, and the lenght of this unit will depend on your position about the subject.


After that, you can meassure, lets say the width of the chair`s sit. You go back to the chair`s leg, meassure it again and then you go to the chair`s sit `s witdh and compare the unit of reference. You will be able to see that the width of the chair`s sit is about 2, 2 and 1/2 your units of reference.

I think you have taken the size sighting`s method and you have got confused with the proportional method. They are quite different, because at the size sighting`s method you actually draw, let`s say a cast, at the exact height, length witdh of your subject.


Both are excellents but different. It is my educated guess that you need to choose what method are you going to practice.

Hope that helped!

Saludos

Luicre
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:37 PM
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Re: Trouble Learning Proportion Sizing

Here I have found some simple explanation about proportional meassurement, at the middle of the page.:

http://www.goshen.edu/art/ed/drawingskills.html



There are more articles about the size sight method:

http://480bc.com/sight_size/sightsize.htm


Good luck and happy drawing, Doug.

Saludos

Luicre
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:46 PM
Improv Improv is offline
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Re: Trouble Learning Proportion Sizing

Quote:
Originally Posted by luicre
Arnopud has explained the method very well,Doug.

Basically at this proportional size sighting method you are the one who choose the unit of proportion or unit of reference. Let`s say that you want to draw a chair.

Ok, I understand, like on a map where 1 kilometer might be 1 cm or 100 cm, depending on the scale of measurement used.

Quote:
I think you have taken the size sighting`s method and you have got confused with the proportional method. They are quite different, because at the size sighting`s method you actually draw, let`s say a cast, at the exact height, length width of your subject.

No confusion over that because I previously knew nothing about either!

Which is used most often-proportional or size sighting? Any links for size sighting? You have me curious as to how that method would work.

Quote:
Both are excellents but different. It is my educated guess that you need to choose what method are you going to practice.

So you can use one but ignore the other method? Or are there times when you may need either?

Quote:
Hope that helped!

Sure did! Thanks.

Doug
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:35 AM
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Re: Trouble Learning Proportion Sizing

I have found another link to the size sight method, hope it works:

http://www.drawinghowtodraw.com/draw...size-method%2F


I have not practiced the size sight method , and it´s taught at the most academic ateliers.


They are different, Doug.


The proportional method IMHO could be harder to handle but once you get used to actually see proportions, it is incredibly usefull-.

Saludos

Luicre
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:45 AM
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Re: Trouble Learning Proportion Sizing

It's likely more accurate to call it "sight-size" (vs size-sight!) and it is useful for exactly what Luicre mentions - you are using a ratio of your distance from the object to paint/draw it exactly at the size it is, in perspective on your surface. the Sight Size method is taught at several smaller art ateliers but not necessarily at most of them. The other method that Luicre refers to is often called "Relative sight measuring" and, is a bit more flexible as you decide the size you want to draw on your paper and develop your proportions accordingly.

Both of these methods take practice ( hundreds of hours min) to get your head around. In my opinion sight-size is less flexible but more exacting. Relative measuring is much more flexible but requires more careful employment of relationships and tilts to get it sorted best. They are both valid and useful.

-Kevin
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Old 04-03-2012, 01:55 PM
Improv Improv is offline
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Re: Trouble Learning Proportion Sizing

Quote:
Originally Posted by luicre
I have found another link to the size sight method, hope it works:

http://www.drawinghowtodraw.com/draw...size-method%2F


I have not practiced the size sight method , and it´s taught at the most academic ateliers.


They are different, Doug.


The proportional method IMHO could be harder to handle but once you get used to actually see proportions, it is incredibly usefull-.

Saludos

Luicre


Thanks again, Luicre. Much appreciated! :-)
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Old 04-03-2012, 02:03 PM
Improv Improv is offline
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Re: Trouble Learning Proportion Sizing

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinwueste
It's likely more accurate to call it "sight-size" (vs size-sight!) and it is useful for exactly what Luicre mentions - you are using a ratio of your distance from the object to paint/draw it exactly at the size it is, in perspective on your surface. the Sight Size method is taught at several smaller art ateliers but not necessarily at most of them. The other method that Luicre refers to is often called "Relative sight measuring" and, is a bit more flexible as you decide the size you want to draw on your paper and develop your proportions accordingly.

Both of these methods take practice ( hundreds of hours min) to get your head around. In my opinion sight-size is less flexible but more exacting. Relative measuring is much more flexible but requires more careful employment of relationships and tilts to get it sorted best. They are both valid and useful.

-Kevin

Your info on the sight-size method agrees with what I found. My original square on paper was 6" x 6", 6 feet away from my easel, and the square drawn on paper after measuring was 2" x 2". Therefore, a ratio of 3/1. Right?

Thanks, very much, Kevin. More food for thought.
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