Home Forums The Learning Center Studio Tips and Framing Starting a BIG one

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  • #468179
    MarcF
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        I have a hankering to do a large painting. When I was at HL yesterday buying brushes, I also picked up a 24 x 48 stretched canvas. It’s the Master’s Touch “Grandeur Collection” – triple primed, kiln dried stretcher bars, 100% cotton duck. It’s a GORGEOUS canvas, actually. Just beautiful. Nobody else would appreciate it except a painter, but you could just hang it as is, it’s so nice. (Actually I have seen such work at MOMA). After the cheapo canvas panels I’ve been painting on so far, this will be quite an experience. And it was half off. Still came to almost $30.
        I had a painting in mind when I bought it. The L/W ratio being 2 (or .5), does not fit most of my photos (my source of inspiration), but I thought I could fit this particular scene I had in mind. And I can, but I’m not all that excited about the photo anymore. So I don’t want to paint it that big anymore. In the store the canvas didn’t look that big at all but as always, once I got it home, it doubled in size somehow.
        Anyhoo – I finally did find a photo I like enough to paint – cropped it to the desired 2 to 1 ratio, and my next task was figuring out how to mount this canvas beast on my drafting board. A disaster like having it fall off and spoil the painting would have unintended consequences such as my losing my mind and eventual suicide. With one ear. So I have to avoid that eventuality at all costs!
        No problem. What do you think of my mounting? I can move the canvas, raise it up and use the stretcher bars below (there are 2 sets but I’d only have to go down to the first one). It seems pretty secure yet moveable, accessible all around – I’m all set. This is going to be either a fantastic painting or a crummy patio table – not sure which.

        #770435
        bongo
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            Won’t you be laying on the floor when you paint the lower section? It would still be too low for my liking even on the next crossbar. I would think shadow free even lighting could be a problem too.
            40″ is the longest I go in the vertical direction. I hang the canvas 36″ off the floor. I paint standing, and I can comfortable reach almost all of the 40″. I have a 10″ tall collapsible footstool that I stand on to reach the higher parts.
            You’ll find you have greater travel with the brush standing than you do sitting (since you don’t have to reach over your lap).

            Seems like that angle could be awkward and cause problems with judging perspective. I use to lay big canvas’ flat on a table to paint. All my figures ended up having elongated torsos because the painting angle gave me a false read on perspective.

            Anyway, whatever works for you IS the right way and you might not know exactly what works best for you until you try. good luck.

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            STUDIOBONGO

            #770446
            MarcF
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                I can paint sitting on a stool, or raise the whole drawing board, or angle it flat as you said. It’s pretty flexible. Certainly its size does present some unusual challenges, but as long as I can access the surface comfortably enough, I should be fine in that regard.

                I would ask – how do you approach a project of this size? Would you do any more priming of the surface than the triple acrylic gesso? The canvas feels pretty “grippy”. I like the feel a lot. I don’t like smooth surfaces. Would you “tone” it or “wash” it or sand it? My plan is to do a light pencil under sketch first, as I have done in the past.

                #770436
                bongo
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                    what paint do you use – oil, acrylic? Subject matter?

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                    STUDIOBONGO

                    #770447
                    MarcF
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                        Hey Bongo
                        Oil paint.
                        Subject matter: see attached.
                        The woman is my wife, the man is James Dean, the location is the James Dean Museum in Fairmount Indiana – we came through there in an RV from New York City. Got a long story if you want to share a couple of beers sometime. Anyway, my wife is a big fan of James Dean and also knows the owners of the museum. They’re all from Brookyn (not James Dean).
                        So after I weeded through 1000 pictures – after having rejected my original idea for the painting – found this one that we both love. It withstood the cropping (I think). I need a tall and slim – or a short and wide – subject. I like the idea of putting it vertically. I think this is going to be very cool and the wife will love it. Theoretically.
                        I’m not wild about the photographs’s exposure and I might juice up the colors a bit – or leave it muted. What do you think???
                        And PLEASE some advice from anybody on doing a large oil painting!! Tone first or paint on just the gesso primed canvas?
                        HELLLPPPPP!!!

                        #770437
                        bongo
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                            Most folks put an additional coat(or two) of gesso over a pre-primed canvas – not relying on the “triple primed”. I would think especially with oils you want to be sure and protect the raw canvas.

                            It’s common to tone the canvas with a reddish-warm color – something like an alizarin hue (hue because alizarin pigment is not very lightfast).

                            Drawing with pencil – at least with acrylics- can sometimes be a problem – no matter how many coats of paint you apply the pencil lines will often bleed thru.
                            An alternative is to draw with a thinned burnt sienna, water color pencil, pastel, i.e.

                            I would only outline the major shapes and not do any detail on the initial drawing – they tend to get lost by the time you’re ready to paint them. You can draw them in later if so desired.

                            That should get you started, then you do blocking, dark to light, thin-transparent to thick opaque –blah blah blah.

                            If i may speak out of turn – you might reconsider your composition. You are basically trying to do three portraits (Dean twice, and your wife) on a vertical 2:1 canvas. The consequence is you have a canvas divided up neatly into quarters – never a good idea. Also the faces (you subject) become tiny compared to the rest of the
                            canvas.

                            You are using a snap-shot. Imo snap-shots (especially with people in them) still look like snap-shots in the final painting. Paintings generally need a more formal structure.

                            All this is not to say you shouldn’t use the photo – but work with it so as to make a better painting out of it. Switching the canvas to horizontal will give you the room you need to do “three portraits” – but it will require chopping, pasting, moving, resizing, etc. in photoshop. The finish reference can be crude – no need to make it pretty – but just functional as a map of where the shapes go…

                            feel free to tell me I’m full of sh-t.

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                            STUDIOBONGO

                            #770448
                            MarcF
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                                I appreciate everything you wrote- but as far as the composition- as soon as I started looking for a picture I had problems because of the 2:1 ratio. It’s far from the “golden ratio” (approx 1.62 : 1) and far from most of my photographs. I’m not going horizontal with it though. The 3 portrait idea is what attracted me to it – it’s visually humorous to me. The 2 artificial Deans and my wife. So, I’m going with this I think. If I can stay on target with the photo – and by the way I printed it 9.5 x 19 and will scale it up a factor of 2.5 to fit the canvas.
                                You don’t like the composition?
                                Darn.

                                And would you use acrylic or oil based gesso? I only have the oil based. Everyone seems to use the acrylic primer tho.

                                Also, a “crimson hue” but not crimson? Didn’t get that. How about a thinned down burnt or raw sienna or umber?

                                There are so many choices- it’s tough so I have a lot of questions but I’m on a steep learning curve.

                                #770438
                                bongo
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                                    I appreciate everything you wrote- but as far as the composition- as soon as I started looking for a picture I had problems because of the 2:1 ratio. It’s far from the “golden ratio” (approx 1.62 : 1) and far from most of my photographs. I’m not going horizontal with it though. The 3 portrait idea is what attracted me to it – it’s visually humorous to me. The 2 artificial Deans and my wife. So, I’m going with this I think. If I can stay on target with the photo – and by the way I printed it 9.5 x 19 and will scale it up a factor of 2.5 to fit the canvas.
                                    You don’t like the composition?

                                    I like the “image” but not the composition – if that makes sense. This is a 12min sloppy paste up – just as illlustration of the sort of thing I was talking about,. your composition is as valid as mine or anyone else – just giving you a different perspective.

                                    And would you use acrylic or oil based gesso? I only have the oil based. Everyone seems to use the acrylic primer tho. Also, a “crimson hue” but not crimson? Didn’t get that. How about a thinned down burnt or raw sienna or umber?

                                    Acrylic dries faster so you can get on with it I think that is the main reason.
                                    Alizarin crimson is an “earthy purplish red” favored by many including Bob Ross – but don’t hold that against it. Alizarin crimson is a single pigment paint and is not very lightfast – in other words, it fades in sunlight. There is a modern mix that closely resembles it – they call mixes of paint made to simulate a single pigment paint “hues”. Azlizarin Crimson Hue is lightfast.
                                    You could certainly use a thinned burnt sienna or some other color. The idea is to get rid of the white – makes it easier to judge values, and look better than white if any should show thru on the final painting.

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                                    STUDIOBONGO

                                    #770449
                                    MarcF
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                                        wow I like your composition. I’m attaching the original pic – and knowing it has to be cropped to a 2:1 ratio, either H or V. Appreciate all your comments. Will go with the oil based gesso I have – I’m not in a hurry and it dries in an hour – or at least overnight – anyway.
                                        I really like what you did there.
                                        By the way, are you an “outer” bongolian or an “inner” bongolian? Just asking bc I knew a guy who knew a guy from outer bongolia.

                                        #770439
                                        bongo
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                                            By the way, are you an “outer” bongolian or an “inner” bongolian? Just asking bc I knew a guy who knew a guy from outer bongolia.

                                            Funny you should ask

                                            I own the urls for

                                            studiobongo
                                            thebongolian
                                            bongolia

                                            ,,,and until a recently for outerbongolia. I had it for years but could never find the right project for it. SO not wanting to keep paying the registration fees I gave it up. Then I got involved in something I could use it for. So I looked to see if it was still available – it was — for $2,500! Someone bought it to flip. Pretty common now-a-days I,m told.

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                                            STUDIOBONGO

                                            #770450
                                            MarcF
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                                                ha.
                                                I just have the domain rights to http://www.marcfriedlander.com.
                                                As though there’s a lot of flipping going on with that url – but I just registered it for another year, anyway. I put up my solo guitar work, my writing, and of course my artwork.
                                                Hey I know what I’m going to do with the composition – and it’s not much. I want it vertical – so that’s that. I’m just maybe moving the pic of JD to the left, and the standing duo (wife and statue) a tad to the right – thus spreading out the portraits a bit – moving weight out from the center, distributing it better.

                                                #770440
                                                bongo
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                                                    #770451
                                                    MarcF
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                                                        Yesssss!!

                                                        I started to spread the gesso on. Saw it was going on way too heavy. Thinned it down. Thinned and thinned. Still too heavy. Wound up scraping most of it off with a palette knife and brushing it down with OMS. Off to a good start. I will sand it and put a very thin coat of the gesso on.
                                                        As far as toning- looking at it, it seems like a powder blue on top and a light green on bottom would be consistent with the final colors. No?.

                                                        Oh and I’m going with your latest – love it and can’t thank you enough.

                                                        #770441
                                                        bongo
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                                                            as far as toning- looking at it, it seems like a powder blue on top and a light green on bottom would be consistent with the final colors. No?.
                                                            Oh and I’m going with your latest – love it and can’t thank you enough.

                                                            No, you want to use the same color over the entire canvas – maybe a thinned burnt sienna to a light midtone.

                                                            You want it even, use a rag to wipe out any brushstrokes. The idea is that the same color undertone will help unify the painting, pull everything together, and the color being more-or-less complimentary will make colors pop (in a good way) if bits show thru.

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                                                            STUDIOBONGO

                                                            #770452
                                                            MarcF
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                                                                Hey there – Señor Bongolian – is this too dark? I used thinned burnt sienna. I know it’s not perfectly even – the canvas itself has features in it’s weave (ok I put 2 creases in it accidentally when I primed the canvas – so delicate!) The line on the right about midway up is going to be a tree.
                                                                But what of the overall look? It does look a little blotchy. I did as you said with the rag and OMS. Don’t worry – give it to me straight – I have my sanding block right here. And how long do I give it – 3-4 days? I can start my next painting while it dries so I’m not rushing it.

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