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Old 11-13-2019, 11:09 AM
lauritz65 lauritz65 is offline
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Re: Lamp light skin color mixing in oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delofasht
Any subtle note of blue you may notice is an illusion, at least on the skin. Try putting them in an image editing program and start color picking in the face, everything is a shade of orange, there is no blue or even really pink colors. Even the peach of the lips is mostly an intensity and slight value shift. It is just relative adjustments by modulation of the intensity (chroma) of the color, the “cooler” areas appear so through juxtaposition of more pure orange against a less pure orange. When you mix complements into transparent paints the value drops as well, so you may want to have a more intense transparent yellow than PY42 close at hand as well, same for the orange red color, perhaps a burnt sienna handy. You can also reduce the intensity of your color by adding tiny touches of a mixed gray or white of the appropriate value (super tiny amounts).

Wow, that was super interesting points.
I will definitely try this approach. The fact that much of it might just be an adjustment of chroma of orange notes is a revelation to me if this turns out right.
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Old 11-13-2019, 03:51 PM
Richard P Richard P is online now
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Re: Lamp light skin color mixing in oil

Delo and the others are right.

Look at this posterized version of the image, where the hue and chroma are kept the same but the value range is reduced to 5 steps. See how when I sample the brightest point in one area and the dullest that they are pretty much the same hue, but one is more chromatic than the other?

You can see as well with the orange and grey swatches how un-chromatic the two sampled points are compared to pure orange:

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Old 11-13-2019, 04:31 PM
lauritz65 lauritz65 is offline
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Re: Lamp light skin color mixing in oil

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Originally Posted by Richard P
Delo and the others are right.

Look at this posterized version of the image, where the hue and chroma are kept the same but the value range is reduced to 5 steps. See how when I sample the brightest point in one area and the dullest that they are pretty much the same hue, but one is more chromatic than the other?

You can see as well with the orange and grey swatches how un-chromatic the two sampled points are compared to pure orange:

Attachment 869477
Indeed, I have begun to try Delos suggestion and it acually looks like he cracked it for me. It works!
Thanks for that psoterized version by the way. That helped me see the hues more clearly.

Great to see that I obviously is on the right track now thanks to you guys.

This was an eye-opener.
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Old 11-13-2019, 04:34 PM
lauritz65 lauritz65 is offline
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Re: Lamp light skin color mixing in oil

Richard, what would you say the grey tone is based on? It looks kind of blueish?
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Old 11-13-2019, 05:59 PM
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Re: Lamp light skin color mixing in oil

There truly is no real secret method, involving exotic or remarkable luminous colored paints for depicting any sort of skin colors.

If there is any sort of "secret" method of depicting the colors of a specific sort of specially-illuminated scene, it would be a simple, mix-to-match of each, and every color of the scene.

There is nothing more direct, or straightforward than creating a mixture of paint, and then merely smearing a swatch of that mixture right down upon the reference photo, itself (usually with a protective, clear, plastic sleeve over it) with a brush (rather than with a palette knife), for comparison against the color of the photo.

Mix, and compare again, and again, until you have precisely matched the target color of the reference photo. Even though you are after a "color effect" for a painting of your own, rather than duplicating a specific color photo, you should gain much insight from having done such a mixing operation.

With only a very limited palette of colors, you should be able to mix nearly EVERY color represented on a color photo, which includes skin colors.

White
Ultramarine Blue
Burnt Umber
Permanent Alizarin Crimson
Cadmium Yellow Light

I suggest not guessing, or winging it, but performing a calculated, deliberate mixture of paint, with your goal being the EXACT MATCH of every color within the area you wish to depict. It CAN be accomplished, but only with a careful, and deliberate goal toward mixing-to-match specific colors on your reference photo. That will be the way you will finally achieve the "effect" you seek, I believe.

Keep in mind that a painting is nothing more than a bunch of achievable colors, each placed in its correct place on the canvas.
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Old 11-13-2019, 06:53 PM
lauritz65 lauritz65 is offline
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Re: Lamp light skin color mixing in oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by WFMartin
T
There is nothing more direct, or straightforward than creating a mixture of paint, and then merely smearing a swatch of that mixture right down upon the reference photo, itself (usually with a protective, clear, plastic sleeve over it) with a brush (rather than with a palette knife), for comparison against the color of the photo.

Mix, and compare again, and again, until you have precisely matched the target color of the reference photo.


No offense, Martin, but what do you think I have been doing for the last weeks?
That is exactly my approach and it usually works fine.
Not in this case, though - no matter how much mixing and comparing and matching against the references I still haven't been able to get it right.
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:33 PM
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Re: Lamp light skin color mixing in oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by lauritz65
No offense, Martin, but what do you think I have been doing for the last weeks?
That is exactly my approach and it usually works fine.
Not in this case, though - no matter how much mixing and comparing and matching against the references I still haven't been able to get it right.

Really!.....Hmmm,....I'd have to ponder that for awhile.

Realize that the colors with which you are dealing here are quite specific, and the value changes are quite smooth, and gradual.

Do you mean that you have not been able to mix the required colors exactly, or do you find that they don't seem to be appropriate for the scene, once you have applied them to your canvas?
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:07 PM
lauritz65 lauritz65 is offline
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Re: Lamp light skin color mixing in oil

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Originally Posted by WFMartin
Really!.....Hmmm,....I'd have to ponder that for awhile.

Realize that the colors with which you are dealing here are quite specific, and the value changes are quite smooth, and gradual.

Do you mean that you have not been able to mix the required colors exactly, or do you find that they don't seem to be appropriate for the scene, once you have applied them to your canvas?

Not been able to mix the required colors exactly.
Well of course, you always have to take the surrounding background in the painting into account and how that contrast might work with the effect you are trying to create, but I am experienced enough to work that out.
But yes, the matching colors of the skin haven't even come close to the reference no matter how I've mixed it. Hence my questions here, what color hues people might see what I might be missing to pick up.

However, the latest suggestions, to create a mix of orange tempered with white or neutral in very smooth value changes has put me quite a bit on the right track.

I have based the orange mix on transparent red oxide, yellow ochre and some very small hint of orange.
In the darkest shadows I used the same mix but without white and added a bit of burnt umber and thalo blue. It has actually resulted in the best hues and values so far closest to the reference pictures.

(The mistake I did earlier was probably to use too much chroma and complementary colors and disregarding the fact that it should be the same mix but very carefully changed in value. I thank people here for making me aware of this.)

But if anyone has more suggestions to make it perfect, I am all ears. There might be something in there that I fail to see, so I'll welcome anything
I definitely couldn't do without the transparent red oxide, though, because it doesn't get too red but is nevertheless very warm. A genius color that I have found invaluable for skin hues in any environment.

I still have some troubles with the most highlighted part of the face as displayed in painting nr 2, there is some coolness there that I can't seem to get completely right. There is some warmth in there somewhere as well, probably based on the same mix as used before but with much more white. But since it demands a lot of white, it tends to get too cool. It is really really subtle so it's a tough one since it shouldn't get too yellow or orange either.

Last edited by lauritz65 : 11-13-2019 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:55 PM
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Re: Lamp light skin color mixing in oil

Quote:
Not been able to mix the required colors exactly.

Well of course, you always have to take the surrounding background in the painting into account and how that contrast might work with the effect you are trying to create, but I am experienced enough to work that out.

Well, actually, no.....you don't. Just mix THOSE [surrounding] colors to match the photo, as well. That will ensure their compatibility with the skin colors.

Not to make you feel badly, but the colors of those examples you have posted are all possible to match with a bare minimum of paint colors.

First, a pleasing, and accurate skin color CAN be achieved with a mixture of the following colors:

Ivory Black
White
Yellow Ochre
Venetian Red (Terra Rosa in some brands)

Mix until you can smear some on your forearm, and can't tell where the paint leaves off, and your skin begins. But, that doesn't create the colors you are seeking for your candle-lit scene.

Now, to create those colors on the photos you have posted, try the palette of colors I originally suggested. I can nearly guarantee that with only those colors you can mix the colors represented on those examples that you posted.

Burnt Umber
Ultramarine Blue
Permanent Alizarin Crimson (Anthraquinone Red) ....PR177
Cadmium Yellow Light
Titanium White

I cannot guide your hand, but try mixing those colors until you achieve a color that is apparent on the examples you have posted. It actually can be done.
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Old 11-13-2019, 10:06 PM
lauritz65 lauritz65 is offline
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Re: Lamp light skin color mixing in oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by WFMartin

First, a pleasing, and accurate skin color CAN be achieved with a mixture of the following colors:

Ivory Black
White
Yellow Ochre
Venetian Red (Terra Rosa in some brands)


Yes, I know, that is the palette used by Anders Zorn and others. I use that a lot myself in general, although I always use transparent red oxide in some way.
But as you say, that is a good base for skin color in natural lighting, not really relevant here.

As for ultramarine blue and alizarin crimson, things actually started to work out for this atmosphere lighting when I left them out and dropped the complementary color scheme I usually use otherwise! They were the ones that really made a crap out of it.
The clue was to keep a very small number of orange hues and change the value slightly and leave out blue and violet in the mix (except for the thalo blue in the blue/umber addition to the mix in the dark shadows).

However, it might be possible that I have to try to add them very carefully in some way in the cool hues of the highlighted area and I see what I come up with but again - it is such a white mix and the colors are very subtle and almost unoticable. Tricky.

Last edited by lauritz65 : 11-13-2019 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 11-14-2019, 03:34 AM
Richard P Richard P is online now
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Re: Lamp light skin color mixing in oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by lauritz65
Yes, I know, that is the palette used by Anders Zorn and others. I use that a lot myself in general, although I always use transparent red oxide in some way.
But as you say, that is a good base for skin color in natural lighting, not really relevant here.

I'm going to disagree with you here. You need a subdued orange colour, and you can mix those with earth yellows and reds.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:03 AM
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Re: Lamp light skin color mixing in oil

Areas like the reflected light in the shadow side of her face can be obtained by increasing the yellow content of the orange/brown of the shadows and easing the value of the mix by the tiniest amount. I sometimes add just the smallest touch of white to a dark to make it appear to be receiving some reflect light.
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Old 11-14-2019, 09:37 PM
lauritz65 lauritz65 is offline
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Re: Lamp light skin color mixing in oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delofasht
Areas like the reflected light in the shadow side of her face can be obtained by increasing the yellow content of the orange/brown of the shadows and easing the value of the mix by the tiniest amount. I sometimes add just the smallest touch of white to a dark to make it appear to be receiving some reflect light.
But what about the most highlighted part of the face, that is hit by the lamp?
That is the most difficult part, since it is so white? I am having real problems with that. Cool and warm at the same time but very hard to detect the colors.

Last edited by lauritz65 : 11-14-2019 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 11-15-2019, 10:32 AM
Richard P Richard P is online now
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Re: Lamp light skin color mixing in oil

Use white, Red Iron Oxide, Yellow Iron Oxide to get a colour of the same value, hue and as close chroma as you can. If you can't quite reach the chroma you need then add small touches of stronger red/oranges/yellows. But you are probably fine as it is.

Use more yellow, less white to reach it.
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Old 11-16-2019, 10:45 AM
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Re: Lamp light skin color mixing in oil

As Richard said, the orange color of the skin moves toward yellow as it moves into light (it is still a variant of orange though). The area directly in light is 100% chroma at the highest values you can get through glazing, so nothing added to the color to drop the purity of it at all. Also, any underpainting in the light would need to be either white or almost white to not interfere with the modeling created by glazes.
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