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  #31   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-29-2010, 04:57 PM
debstress debstress is offline
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Re: Does rebelling against compositional rules work?

If one thinks of music, culinary art, does one throw rules out the window, on the the other hand who has not experienced a beuarocratic hairball in expediting business - too many rules! No rules = anarchy - solution - balance
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Old 11-30-2010, 10:16 PM
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Re: Does rebelling against compositional rules work?

meh. The problem is for ever rebellion, there seems to be a set of rules. Which I think is what you mean when you say Anarchy-solution-balance. Etc. Each phase of art or design is eventually ironed out. To what? I don't know, what does art "always go back to?" great upheaval-a shifting away-boredom w/ new excitement=return to the place of (Where?) I actually do not think "Anarchy" was (really) ever part of the quotient because as much as we all think we are doing something "individualistic" we can always find that we are simply copying a trend. There is no (real) such thing as "individuality" only "individual perspective."
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Old 12-01-2010, 03:42 PM
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Horsa Horsa is offline
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Re: Does rebelling against compositional rules work?

"Rebellion" can become its own "uniform".

Many movements that started as rebellion and individual self-expression have foundered on the shoals of uniformity and mass culture.

There is also a fine line between rebellion and anarchy. Rebellion is structured anarchy is not. Humans are still structure seeking creatures. A composition that rebels against one or more of the "rules" can still work if it provides sufficient underlying structure.

There is a difference between improvisational jazz and random instrumental noise.
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Old 12-02-2010, 02:59 AM
MikeN MikeN is offline
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Re: Does rebelling against compositional rules work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsa
"Rebellion" can become its own "uniform".

Many movements that started as rebellion and individual self-expression have foundered on the shoals of uniformity and mass culture.

There is also a fine line between rebellion and anarchy. Rebellion is structured anarchy is not. Humans are still structure seeking creatures. A composition that rebels against one or more of the "rules" can still work if it provides sufficient underlying structure.

There is a difference between improvisational jazz and random instrumental noise.


Great post.


I'd add that the structure that we seek is not always tangible and the relationships can vary in their depth and location. Bad fads, which may be chaotic and lacking solid formal structure (design), are sometimes embraced by large numbers of people and enjoyed. The significant relationships are socio-perceptual constructs in the case of fashion, fleeting.

My best guess: It's all about learning. We are naturally attracted to novelty as our experience with "the different" or"new" feeds us information and leads to recognition of structure. Our processing is rewarded with a pleasurable (aesthetic) feeling. At that point where we overly familiarize ourselves with the item/structure- to the point that we no longer learn- we loose attraction.

To parallel what you wrote above, if after some time the novelty doesn't yield understanding of a structure our systems give up and we declare that it's just chaos. We then begin to search elsewhere for stimuli and potential knowledge.

Last edited by MikeN : 12-02-2010 at 03:36 AM.
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:30 AM
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Re: Does rebelling against compositional rules work?

I think the mind constantly seeks rules by which to understand the world. There is a constant appetite to create them.

Once a system of rules has become internalized and entrenched, a major reversal pains us like a death in the family. If we are confronted with the perfect expression of what we already know, it is cliche and boredom, but the sweet spot brings just enough novelty to teach us something new about the universe, without upsetting the whole apple cart. And we are fascinated.
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Old 01-08-2011, 07:45 PM
artistdale artistdale is offline
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Re: Does rebelling against compositional rules work?

I wish I had time to read all the posts but I really don't.
Here's my take on your question as I recall it.

If one holds to a very specific type of art (like extreme realism), then there are perhaps very precise rules to follow. In some cases there's only one rule (no rules). To me good art is art that sells for a decent price. If someone says: "Hey! I really like that!" ...then I'll feel I've been successful.

Art is all about enjoyment and who's to say what makes for enjoyment?
In my paintings I'll almost totally ignore all the so-called "rules." I just look for a final product that to me makes a clear one sentence statement.
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Old 02-21-2011, 03:10 PM
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Evelien1 Evelien1 is offline
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Re: Does rebelling against compositional rules work?

I heard Albrecht Duerer did rebel too, for a long time. But in the end he gave in to the golden mean.
I do use rules, but only when it suits me. Otherwise, I just complicate things to the extent where I can only choose by feeling.

I think it's best to 'feel' rules. Only thinking them up doesn't work. If the 'rule' is any good, you'd have to feel its effect when you see it applied.

It's also a matter of conviction. some say 'never put things in the center'.
But for me, that's an important ingredient. I do understand why 'they' say never to put things in the centre, but I have my reasons to do it anyway.
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Old 02-21-2011, 03:13 PM
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Re: Does rebelling against compositional rules work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisGZ
I think the mind constantly seeks rules by which to understand the world. There is a constant appetite to create them.

Once a system of rules has become internalized and entrenched, a major reversal pains us like a death in the family. If we are confronted with the perfect expression of what we already know, it is cliche and boredom, but the sweet spot brings just enough novelty to teach us something new about the universe, without upsetting the whole apple cart. And we are fascinated.

I love this post.
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Old 08-16-2011, 11:37 PM
ECYL ECYL is offline
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Re: Does rebelling against compositional rules work?

Rules are called rules for good reasons.

The main one being, they work.

But at some point in time, those 'rules' had to be discovered and established, meaning they weren't called by that name before.

Therefore, there are probably many more 'rules' yet to be discovered out there.

Experiment, find those new ways of doing things that work, and make them your own.

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Old 08-18-2011, 06:03 PM
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mburrell mburrell is offline
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Re: Does rebelling against compositional rules work?

ECYL makes a good point. Playing with the rules bending, pushing blending and breaking them, helps one understand visual language. It is the understanding of this visual language that allows one to progress beyond grunting or slang to pursue the beauty of the language and the message or experience. The depth of expression becomes stronger if one has a clue what's going on. Someone can stumble upon this language and we all do to some degree, but why not use the wisdom of those before us those great artist that can teach us, push us. We stand on their shoulder from there we can see things they saw and things they could not see. We have to prepare our shoulders for future artist to stand. How to do this is the real question! Rules (traditions, wisdom) and innovation(rule breaking, rebellion) go hand in hand. One the Yin to the Yang.
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Old 08-22-2011, 04:46 PM
LuvHim LuvHim is offline
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Re: Does rebelling against compositional rules work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by creativechrissy
Currently I am reading a few books on (mastering) composition and have been told about the "rules". Now we all know of them or soon learn of these compositional rules such as golden mean, rule of thirds, asymmetry of composition creates interest, odds are more appealing and hold to the eye, NEVER put the focal point in the middle etc etc.

So as an artist who wishes to succeed and have successful accomplished paintings, I adhere to these rules.

But is there known artworks or even just artworks that have sold that don't follow these rules but still somehow work or are appealing?

What are your thoughts on compositional rules and why do they work so well? So does that mean I should never do a still life with just two fruits because 2 is an even number and therefore the composition will be unpleasing and not work?
An extremely talented and published artist, Elizabeth Kincaid, says in her book "Paint Watercolors That Dance With Lights", that rules are guides and understanding why they exists is much more important than following them. If one doesn't work for you, address why. You can successfully break any rule if you solve the problem that it addresses.
I'm still trying to get a hold on this myself but her work and success show that it has to be true!
Linda (LuvHim)

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