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Old 02-23-2009, 10:42 AM
kperkins kperkins is offline
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by geezerart
I'm guilty of not understanding that part of th agreement.
I can stop using this site, but this site won't stop using me. I think thats a big amount of power to have over artists.
I've done auto illustrations for years but didn't put one here yet because I'm trying new things . I'll have to think about putting up my illustrations including the ones sold and out of my control anyway.
I know that I have pretty much stopped posting any works important to me.
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Old 02-23-2009, 01:12 PM
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robinj20 robinj20 is offline
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

The feed back link for the new user agreement doesn't work for me either.
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Old 02-23-2009, 01:26 PM
kperkins kperkins is offline
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

As of today 23 Feb, there's an even newer, more draconian User Agreement. check out the site announcements at the top of each forum.
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Old 02-23-2009, 02:37 PM
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Descartes Descartes is offline
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

For a link to the older version, copy the page address "http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/rules.php" into google. Then, on the first entry (the page itself) click on cache.

old page is here
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Old 02-23-2009, 02:41 PM
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

The feedback link does not work and it has been reported, thank you.
Questions regarding the UA may be sent via PM to our Lead Administrator, Matthew Swift.
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Old 02-23-2009, 03:19 PM
Matthew Swift Matthew Swift is offline
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

Hi folks,

The new user agreement has been announced via the site announcement feature and by a mass-email to our membership. If you have not received an e-mail about this yet, please accept our apologies, as our list is near 200,000 people, and it does take a while to go through the system.

WetCanvas has been operating under an older user agreement (Terms of Service, Rules, Terms of Use, etc.) for years, and we just updated it to include more a more refined set of rules, a clearer definition regarding the rights and copyright of work posted here by members, clearer definitions of all member rights, and more clarity in the wording and presentation of the document.

Also added to this new user agreement is the inclusion of the policy of banned member reconciliation, where a process exists now so members who have been removed from the site for violating the terms of service may appeal to return. Something very positive for our community.

Please take a few moments to read over the document. It is located at http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/rules.php

Thanks so much. I am moving this topic to "Site Discussions" where it belongs.

Best,
Matthew Swift
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Old 02-23-2009, 03:31 PM
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

Matthew, thank you for this information and do you have an idea when the feedback link will be fixed?
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Old 02-24-2009, 12:41 PM
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AddiesArt AddiesArt is offline
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

Quote:
You understand and agree that any Content you post to the web site or any section thereof (including but not limited to the Reference Image Library) becomes a permanent addition to the site, and that you have no right to demand the removal of any Content you post to the web site or any section thereof.

13. You grant the following licenses with respect to Content you post or submit to the web site, or otherwise make available through the WetCanvas Service.

a. You hereby expressly grant to F+W a royalty-free, perpetual, non-exclusive, world-wide, irrevocable right and license to use, reproduce, adapt, modify, publish, edit, translate, perform, transmit, exploit, sublicense or otherwise distribute and display the Content on, in connection with, or to advertise, promote or archive the web site, related web sites, and any related services, as it sees fit, alone or as a part of other works, in any form, medium or technology now known or later developed, and you waive all moral rights in all such Content. This license is necessary to allow F+W to operate the web site. It does not give F+W the right to use your Content in any way it sees fit, but merely allows F+W to include your Content on the web site and to use your Content in promoting the web site to other users.
You may delete anything you want but we give up all rights forever to ask for content change of our own words and art?

What does it mean in the bold words? You say you can modify my words or my images? I don't want you having the right to modify my paintings. What does it mean the right to publish in promoting the web site? Can you use a work of art from the site in an advertisment?

I think you used a lawyer to write this and I may need a lawyer to translate it.
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Old 02-24-2009, 12:42 PM
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

The url link doesn't work yet.
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Old 02-24-2009, 12:58 PM
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moccasin moccasin is offline
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

Matthew - I have read the new UA and sifted through it, looked at it from every angle I could possibly think of, dissected it and looked up the legal words I didn't already know for clarification of meaning ....

... and I STILL need further clarification from F&W's legal beagles as to just how far reaching the UA is as far as F&W's use of ANY content on WC.

Some of the questions I want answered:

1. According to the UA, can F&W use content (images, art work, tutorials, anything) from WC in any of their other media - magazines, books, videos, you name it?

2. IF they want to use our content in any of the above, are they legally required to ask permission of the original artist/author or can they just use it as if it belonged to them because they own this website?

3. IF they want to use our content, will F&W be expecting to PAY the original artist/author for that content?

I have some VERY grave concerns regarding the answers to these questions, and until I get them, I am not going to be a happy camper here.

I would think that every person who posts on WC would be equally concerned and demanding the answers to these questions - and perhaps a few more besides.

Many people here derive income from their art, their workshops and their videos and writings. If F&W has free and unlimited access to all the content on this site (including high resolution images posted in the RIL which are more than ample for print publication and many are from professional photographers who earn their living with their photography) then to me, this is just plain wrong, and there is no way I would grant F&W those rights.

Please inform F&W and their legal team of these concerns and request they address them post haste.

They may return a comment such as, "All these were in the old UA, we just updated and clarified, blah, blah, blah ..."

That is not good enough for me.

When the UA was with Scott, the founder of WC, I did not have any concerns about the use of my content because Scott was not and did not have any intention of using the content for anything. This was a site of artists supporting artists. I had no fears Scott would go running madly off in all direction EXPLOITING his membership. (The word "exploiting" is in this UA - I didn't dream it up. It says that F&W is allowed to exploit its members.)

When Scott sold WC to Kerry, I still was not as concerned as I am now. Kerry, in my view, saw WC as a means to derive personal income from the sale of advertising on the WC website. That was okay, as I understood the business end of needing to make your investment pay for itself. Paid advertising on the site was logical and had the potential to be very profitable given the huge number of members here that advertisers could reach. I did not view Kerry's ownership and use of the site as a direct threat to copyright and to the use of WC content, without permission and without remuneration.

All that has changed now with F&W's ownership. Given the wording (which may or may not be the same as in the original UA I agreed to back in 2002 with Scott), the threat that F&W, with its much wider corporate holdings and publications and media affiliates, poses a very real concern to me and allows F&W to directly profit, without remuneration to the originator, by copying and publishing OUR copyrighted works, through the sale of magazines, books, videos, etc, etc - anything they may do now or that they may decide to do in the future.

We will have given up control of any content we post here on WetCanvas! if I am interpreting this correctly.

No bloody way!!!

PLEASE have F&W attend to this issue immediately - or they may see a whole slew of members leaving and perhaps even filing lawsuits to regain control of their content here.

I am deadly serious.

Sue
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Old 02-24-2009, 03:44 PM
Windbreaker Windbreaker is offline
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

Quote Oldthumbs
Quote:
Before we get too exercised over this, remember that you agreed to the User Agreement when you signed up for WetCanvas. At the time, the phrase Chuck quoted above was -



"With respect to Content you submit or make available for inclusion on publicly-accessible areas of the Service, the perpetual, irrevocable license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publicly perform and publicly display such Content on, in connection with, or to advertise or promote, the Service, and/or related sites. "


That has always been part of the user agreement to allow the web site to run. There is a question as to what possible other use F+W might expect to put the content we submit and that question has been asked. We are awaiting a response. I suspect that they will respond that it applies only as stated - to let the website run without problems.

The new wording:

Quote:
13. You grant the following licenses with respect to Content you post or submit to the web site, or otherwise make available through the WetCanvas Service.

a. You hereby expressly grant to F+W a royalty-free, perpetual, non-exclusive, world-wide, irrevocable right and license to use, reproduce, adapt, modify, publish, edit, translate, perform, transmit, exploit, sublicense or otherwise distribute and display the Content on, in connection with, or to advertise, promote or archive the web site, related web sites, and any related services, as it sees fit, alone or as a part of other works, in any form, medium or technology now known or later developed, and you waive all moral rights in all such Content. This license is necessary to allow F+W to operate the web site. It does not give F+W the right to use your Content in any way it sees fit, but merely allows F+W to include your Content on the web site and to use your Content in promoting the web site to other users.

Despite the disclaimer in Italics the bold faced text very clearly give WC the right to do anything at any time with every thing posted here.

Remove the statement in bolded, underlined, and in italics and I could possibly live with it: However, everything bolded give me concern.

Last edited by Windbreaker : 02-24-2009 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 02-24-2009, 04:14 PM
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hsoliver hsoliver is offline
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

I have to agree with the above, I am very worried about posting anything here with or without a copyright watermark. An no the feedback link does not work.
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Old 02-24-2009, 08:57 PM
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droll13 droll13 is offline
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

Add me to the list of those very concerned. I'm not one who earns much from photography; that's not the issue. But I view my images as exactly that - MY IMAGES - to do with as I choose. And I emphatically do not choose to have them "exploited" for any purpose, especially not for uncompensated and undefined marketing purposes.

I hope others will freely express their thoughts here. But I also suggest that, after we have strongly espressed our concerns, we don't say or do something drastic until we've had a chance to digest any responses.

(Now this is certainly a rare situation - me urging restraint and patience.)

To Sue, great admiration for your courage in bringing this into the open, while knowing the risks,
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:36 PM
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CharM CharM is online now
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

It seems to me that these two sentences contradict one another...
You hereby expressly grant to F+W a royalty-free, perpetual, non-exclusive, world-wide, irrevocable right and license to use, reproduce, adapt, modify, publish, edit, translate, perform, transmit, exploit, sublicense or otherwise distribute and display the Content on, in connection with, or to advertise, promote or archive the web site, related web sites, and any related services, as it sees fit, alone or as a part of other works, in any form, medium or technology now known or later developed, and you waive all moral rights in all such Content.
It does not give F+W the right to use your Content in any way it sees fit, but merely allows F+W to include your Content on the web site and to use your Content in promoting the web site to other users.
This phrase seems to be very strongly worded, and of some concern...
irrevocable right and license to use, reproduce, adapt, modify, publish, edit, translate, perform, transmit, exploit, sublicense or otherwise distribute and display the Content
Like the others, I would appreciate clarification...
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Last edited by CharM : 02-24-2009 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:09 PM
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Grainne Grainne is offline
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?



sublicense
- a license granted to a third party by a licensee, extending some rights or privileges that the licensee enjoys.

That word alone should give some pause for thought . . .

exploit

• make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource)
• use (a situation or person) in an unfair or selfish way : the company was exploiting a legal loophole
• benefit unfairly from the work of (someone), typically by overworking or underpaying them

Definitions straight from the dictionary . . .

Grainne
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