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Old 02-21-2009, 05:46 PM
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BlueRiderMan BlueRiderMan is offline
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Question Have you read the new User Agreement?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/rules.php



~
just wondering?

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Old 02-21-2009, 06:22 PM
Davidem Davidem is offline
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRiderMan

I have read it but am not sure that according to the agreement I could be expunged for talking about it public.


Would asking for clarification be considered an offense?

Davidem

Whoops called it back to correct and duplicated post.

Last edited by Davidem : 02-21-2009 at 06:24 PM. Reason: Apology for duplicate posting
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:25 PM
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BlueRiderMan BlueRiderMan is offline
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

does the feedback link work for others??

Not me.

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Old 02-21-2009, 06:31 PM
Davidem Davidem is offline
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRiderMan
does the feedback link work for others??

Not me.

~

Now I know that talking about it would get one in deep trouble, at least as I interpret the user agreement. But what do I know, I just have to agree to it not understand it.

Davidem
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Old 02-21-2009, 08:48 PM
Paulafv Paulafv is offline
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

PC is acting weird. Can a new agreement take the place of the old one, if you've not agreed to it, or is it only for newbies?

Thanks, BRM. Waiting to see if the old site returns to its former glory. When everyone was too sickly sweet, it was such a relief to retreat to Debates where it was real and fun and funny.

I appreciate your flip-flop diving escapades. I'm relegated to the old boogie board at the beach, but the 8 yr olds keep an eye on whether or not I'll try to catch that incoming wave, and if it looks like I will, they will join the fun.
I'm nearly old, in a week or so, but I'm still the best ancient boogie boarder on the beach. My sons outdo me, but in my age class, I'm very good. Have a new board for this year to come. Can't wait for summer. It will be the best yet.

I'm with you in spirit. I'm dumping my subscription and not taking up the one I was going to get. Library is only a mile away. Hope to see you back at Debates, a wonderful challenge of ideas.

Paula
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Old 02-22-2009, 12:53 AM
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Katána Katána is offline
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

Thanks BRM,

13 a) and b) is interesting...........
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Old 02-22-2009, 01:45 AM
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cjorgensen cjorgensen is offline
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

I am okay with 13b, that you can't use the photo image itself and sell it, but you much re-create it in another medium. But does 13a mean they can use our artwork that we post here?
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Old 02-22-2009, 02:06 AM
Davidem Davidem is offline
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

As stated in 13b

Quote:
This license is necessary to allow F+W to operate the web site. It does not give F+W the right to use your Content in any way it sees fit, but merely allows F+W to include your Content on the web site and to use your Content in promoting the web site to other users.
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Old 02-22-2009, 04:44 PM
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

Don't knock the guys who moderate the site I'm sure they do it out of the good will of their hearts , and in there own time too !! lets face it , no one on this site would like to harm the society we spend our free time in I would like too applaud all the moderators and people who help this site work ... many thanks

Loft
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Old 02-22-2009, 04:59 PM
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

P.S. If this statement is in the wrong Forum please put it in the right one many thanx

Loft
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Old 02-22-2009, 06:56 PM
kperkins kperkins is offline
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

Posted this elswhere, but afraid it'll get lost, and it's more appropriate here anyways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty C
The UA states quite clearly some of the powers you are alluding to. They are there for all to see, and we have to assume you have read them under clause 1


And the provsions of which I speak:


You have all agreed to these terms.
We are not in fact obliged to communicate at all in terms of the actions we take, but in most cases we attempt to do so.
....
Ah yes, the UA. Which UA are you talking about, the UA I agreed to when I joined this site, or the new one from Jan 22, which was snuck in with no fanfair, or announcement?
The one that says this:
Quote:
Terms of Use
This web site is owned by F+W Media, Inc. (“F+W”). F+W provides this web site and related services to you, the user of this web site, only for your personal, non-commercial use and subject to your acceptance of and compliance with this Terms of Use Agreement (“Agreement”). Please read the terms contained herein carefully before using this web site and/or the services associated therewith. Your use of this web site and the associated services confirms your unconditional acceptance of these terms and conditions. If you do not accept these terms and conditions, do not use this web site.
Changes to this Agreement
1. F+W reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to revise this Agreement at any time. If you have provided us with your email address, F+W will notify you of any changes to the terms contained herein via email. Changes to these terms will be included in a revised version of this Agreement accessible through the web site. Your continued use of the web site and related services following notification or posting of any changes to this Agreement constitutes your unconditional acceptance and agreement to be bound by the changed terms. You must cease using the web site if you do not agree to be bound by the revised terms and conditions.

I provided an email address (but don't accept any emails from WC!, because I choose not to) and got no email about this. It's not in site announcements anywhere (although I see Karyn used to do this when she changed it).
How can I agree to it, if I don't know anything about it. It seems to me if Admin can take the time to change the UA , they can take the time to actually announce that fact, rather than just slipping it in underhandedly.

I bolded the last sentence in the quote from the UA (or actually MA) because it's something that really bothere me. Yes I can cease using the site if I disagree with it. I can even close my account.
But.
And here's the big, but, (I suddenly have a song running through my head): but, I can stop using this site, but this site won't stop using me.
I'll repeat that: I can stop using this site, but this site won't stop using me.

If I leave, because I disagree with the MA, if I feel that I can't in good conscience stay here, I'm still here--even if I don't want to be.
Where's the reciprocity here? what's my recourse? Do I need to call my lawyers, to call your lawyers? Is that the only way to get the owners to take an action that I feel is appropriate?
We are not guests, we are not members, we are serfs for F+W corp.
Actually, not even serfs, we don't get paid.
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Old 02-22-2009, 08:21 PM
celtic1 celtic1 is offline
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

No, but I'm reading stuff about it, like, "Reconciliation Team" "Case Files" "Anonimous Committees" WHAAAAA???

What is this prison or reform school, communism, the KGB ???????

Will you implant a micro-chip, no an electronic device that delivers a shock everytime I say the S word!

And all just so I can debate/discuss Islam, Christianity, Abortion, Society's ills, politics and politicians, and even the criminally insane et al??????

Fageddaboudid!!!!
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Old 02-23-2009, 03:12 AM
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moccasin moccasin is offline
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Grand Forks, BC Canada
 
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

Y'know ... when I have a photo someone wants to use for something, I always hope they have the good manners to PM me to ask if they MAY use it. The work I post anywhere on the Net is MINE. I own the copyrights to it. For F&W to decide they can use my art willy-nilly, as they see fit, or modify, alter, bend, fold, staple or mutilate for their own purposes, is just rather unacceptable to me. That, then, would include F&W being allowed to remove any copyright marks placed on posted images.

According to this UA, we can't do that with their stuff from this site. Why, then, would they think they should have that right to use ours without asking and/or without payment to the artist or creator.

Would that also include any tutorials on this site? If an artist has gone to the trouble, out of the goodness of their heart, to do up a tutorial on some aspect of their art, according to this UA, F&W has free and unlimited access and use of that tutorial. That would mean they could reprint it in any of their books and magazines, and the originator would have no payment and no recourse - and perhaps not even recognition for it. To me, this is just plain WRONG. There's enough stuff on this site, over all the years it has been active, to provide F&W with free stuff for years. No wonder they wanted to buy it!!!

There is no bleedin' way F&W should have unlimited use, without payment, of any of our hard work and property for any reason.

I agree with what kperkins said here:

Quote:
Yes I can cease using the site if I disagree with it. I can even close my account.
But.
And here's the big, but, (I suddenly have a song running through my head): but, I can stop using this site, but this site won't stop using me.
I'll repeat that: I can stop using this site, but this site won't stop using me.

If I leave, because I disagree with the MA, if I feel that I can't in good conscience stay here, I'm still here--even if I don't want to be.
Where's the reciprocity here? what's my recourse? Do I need to call my lawyers, to call your lawyers? Is that the only way to get the owners to take an action that I feel is appropriate?
We are not guests, we are not members, we are serfs for F+W corp.
Actually, not even serfs, we don't get paid.

If a member leaves the site, F&W would still retain the right to full and unlimited use of the member's contributions to the site. That, too, strikes me as wrong.

Perhaps the answer, then, is to have our own websites, and to only post links to our artwork and tutorials, instead of using the uploader or the attachment feature and plunking it forever into F&W's clutches. It bears thinking about, for sure.

I am gonna have to do some hard thinking about F&W and how all this applies to me and to my art. Too bad, really, because I have enjoyed my tenure here and cherish the friendships I've made, but I am not terribly happy about this new autocratic corporation. When it was owned by Scott, one really didn't need to worry about being exploited. Even Kerry didn't try to capitalize too much on our memberships, but recognized their value for advertising revenue for the site. But F&W it appears, will be a whole new ballgame .... I am sad ...

Cheers,
Sue
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Old 02-23-2009, 04:29 AM
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Linarty Linarty is offline
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Champaign, Illinois
 
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Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

Legally, they can put anything into the agreement that they want...you can even sign the agreement, but if what they are stating is illegal, it just does not count. And they know that. But mostly, their lawyers are just cramming every potential possibity they can imagine into the statement in an attempt to protect themselves. The REALITY IS that the international millinium copyright agreement was delibertaly vague on internet issues, with the idea that things would be worked out in court on individual basis.

Basically, anyone can say anything, and it doesn't mean doo-doo, legally...like ownership of what you've posted.

There is a group...Virtual University.. that offers a varity of online courses for $20us for 4, and one is Intro To Copyright. You can 'audit', not for grade, and keep up on the latest if you are concerned.
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:26 AM
geezerart geezerart is offline
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USA
 
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Posts: 116
 
Re: Have you read the new User Agreement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by moccasin
Y'know ... when I have a photo someone wants to use for something, I always hope they have the good manners to PM me to ask if they MAY use it. The work I post anywhere on the Net is MINE. I own the copyrights to it. For F&W to decide they can use my art willy-nilly, as they see fit, or modify, alter, bend, fold, staple or mutilate for their own purposes, is just rather unacceptable to me. That, then, would include F&W being allowed to remove any copyright marks placed on posted images.

According to this UA, we can't do that with their stuff from this site. Why, then, would they think they should have that right to use ours without asking and/or without payment to the artist or creator.

Would that also include any tutorials on this site? If an artist has gone to the trouble, out of the goodness of their heart, to do up a tutorial on some aspect of their art, according to this UA, F&W has free and unlimited access and use of that tutorial. That would mean they could reprint it in any of their books and magazines, and the originator would have no payment and no recourse - and perhaps not even recognition for it. To me, this is just plain WRONG. There's enough stuff on this site, over all the years it has been active, to provide F&W with free stuff for years. No wonder they wanted to buy it!!!

There is no bleedin' way F&W should have unlimited use, without payment, of any of our hard work and property for any reason.

I agree with what kperkins said here:



If a member leaves the site, F&W would still retain the right to full and unlimited use of the member's contributions to the site. That, too, strikes me as wrong.

Perhaps the answer, then, is to have our own websites, and to only post links to our artwork and tutorials, instead of using the uploader or the attachment feature and plunking it forever into F&W's clutches. It bears thinking about, for sure.

I am gonna have to do some hard thinking about F&W and how all this applies to me and to my art. Too bad, really, because I have enjoyed my tenure here and cherish the friendships I've made, but I am not terribly happy about this new autocratic corporation. When it was owned by Scott, one really didn't need to worry about being exploited. Even Kerry didn't try to capitalize too much on our memberships, but recognized their value for advertising revenue for the site. But F&W it appears, will be a whole new ballgame .... I am sad ...

Cheers,
Sue
I'm guilty of not understanding that part of th agreement.
I can stop using this site, but this site won't stop using me. I think thats a big amount of power to have over artists.
I've done auto illustrations for years but didn't put one here yet because I'm trying new things . I'll have to think about putting up my illustrations including the ones sold and out of my control anyway.
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