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Old 12-11-2015, 12:36 AM
m.g. lynch m.g. lynch is offline
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newbie here

Hey there everyone! I'm new to this forum and very new to watercolor. I have a question pertaining to a certain style I'm drawn to. Ink & Watercolor. Let me start off by saying I'm nowhere near this level yet, but I'm curious about the order in which these paintings are done. Ink first then the painting or vise versa?? I'm sure there's several layers and multiple techniques being used. I figured I'd pick the brains of some people who know what they're looking at!

I can't post a pic because it's my first post. But, if anyone has the time the artist is Brandon Boyd. Most of his newer paintings are the ones I'm talking about.


Any help would be appreciated!

Mark
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Old 12-11-2015, 07:27 AM
JayJay365UK JayJay365UK is offline
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Re: newbie here

Hi Mark and welcome!

There is no particular order to do ink and watercolor. Some people like to do the inking first (using a waterproof ink pen!) and then watercolour over the top, some like to do the watercolour first, then pick out areas with a pen afterwards. Sometimes inking a little, then watercolour washes, then more ink afterwards! A bit of experimentation with each method should give you a better idea of which method suits you best. It's called 'line and wash' if you want to look it up... there are a few demos on YouTube.

I looked up Brandon Boyd's paintings, very complex! A good place to aim for though!

ETA: have a look at our Robert's sketches and work in progress on this thread here: http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show....php?t=1394004

Last edited by JayJay365UK : 12-11-2015 at 07:31 AM.
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Old 12-11-2015, 08:06 AM
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Re: newbie here

Hi Mark,

You should also check out the Pen and Ink forum area for artists working closer to the aesthetic you are after. Concentrating on your pen work and mastering the line will be key. Do you work with dip pens? For me, the danger with inking first is avoiding a 'coloring book' look -- keeping the color loose, and not simply inside the lines, important. But try different approaches. It may also vary by subject/composition, too. Keep us posted on your progress.
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:04 AM
m.g. lynch m.g. lynch is offline
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Re: newbie here

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll look into some of your ideas. Also I'm a complete newbie to this so , I didn't even know there was water proof ink pens!! Gotta take a trip to the art shop. Lol!
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:42 PM
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artsy_lissa artsy_lissa is offline
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Re: newbie here

Howdy OP! Welcome to WC.

I love 'line and wash' as well. I've been using Pigma Micron pens first; then laying down color with watercolor-pan paint & brush. When it's dry I might also go back in to accentuate more line work as needed, etc... It's really fun and feels spontaneous!

~Lissa
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Old 12-12-2015, 01:07 AM
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KreativeK KreativeK is offline
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Re: newbie here

Hi Mark and welcome to WetCanvas! Love ink with watercolor and usually do an ink sketch first then add paint. Favorite pen is Pigma Micron 01 for a thin line and Staedtler Calligraphic duo. For non-waterproof try black Tombow brush pens, wide tip only, add water with a rigger/script liner brush for a value type loose watercolor look.
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Old 12-12-2015, 08:35 AM
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Re: newbie here

Another choice for water-soluble lines is Stabilo. Their Stabilo 88 line comes in many colors, and you can wash the edges to create nice soft lines. I use them a lot when I want softer lines, or less contrast with the line work. I use Staedtler and Micron, but prefer fountain pens and dip pens to create more variation in the weight. And with those, I choose from a variety of both waterproof and water soluble inks.

Liz Steele has an excellent blog about sketching with pen and ink and watercolor. Even if it is not your style, you may find it useful to see what materials she likes. That is how I discovered De Atramentis inks, which are my current favorite.
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Old 12-13-2015, 11:05 AM
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Re: newbie here

Hi! Welcome! You can do pen and ink in any order. Claudia Nice has great books out on it.
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Old 12-13-2015, 03:26 PM
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Re: newbie here

Wow, thanks for using mine as an example!

Mark, check out books and videos by Claudia Nice. She is my inspiration for pen and watercolor. She has some omnibus volumes like Textures in Pen and Watercolor with amazing realism in it - stuff like glass marbles and bottles, trees, rocks, waterfalls, birds, fish, animals, just amazing realism. Some of her works, she uses Rapidograph technical pens loaded with watercolor or colored inks.

I used to use Rapidographs. They die if ignored for more than one day with ink left in them. That's a $20 pen destroyed by forgetfulness, so I switched to Pigma Microns, disposable and much cheaper. I bought the 16 pen Black cube wth all the sizes and sets of colored ones too in sizes 05 and 01. They are waterproof and awesome.

Those are for three-step work: Pencil, then Ink, then Color. Then if it would help, added final pen details. That's the way I usually work. Sometimes I will watercolor first and once in a great while slosh colors around, then try to pick out things in the random shapes with a pen.

For watersoluble pens I have Stabilo Point 88 set and a set of Triplus Fineliners, both are good for pen and wash by just dragging a wet brush through the pen work to create light washes.

I use a Niji Waterbrush size Large most often, they have a good point and good flow and make the water part of watercoloring dead easy. I use whatever watercolor journal or pad or book I have around, works fine on anything that takes watercolor including Strathmore Mix Media sketchbooks and journals.

Some artists use fountain pens for the pen work, I love them but haven't done that recently.

Where to get started on it is in the pencil stage.

1. make sure that proportions and big shapes and perspctive accurate at pencil stage. Do only the most mportant details and divisions that will be big shadow areas. Get the line right. Contour drawing wht a bit of scribbled shading mostly as notes for values.

2. Pen layer. Clean up all the mistakes in the pencll drawing following reference or source. Use any texturing shading that works and suggests real textures, strokes in the directon of the fur or around contours of objects can give 3D effect. Shade in the Deep Darks and Medium Darks values. Hint at the light values or put those n entirely with watercolor. Pen work is not so hot at getting light values accurately, it can look jarring and clumsy to stipple dots too far apart. Then it looks speckled rather than light colored. However, dotted lines can go one step lighter than solid ones!

3. Paint it! Color in with watercolor. Get an area lke just the rock or just the tree wet and drop colors in for soft color changes within it and hard edges outside. Clouds you can paint the whole sky blue and dab off highlights whle t's still wet with a paper towel or sponge or toilet paper. Mix colors on the page or in the area. do one area at a time when you want somethng to have a hard edge. This works for anything from a shaded flower petal to the horizon line.

Last, kind of work small till you get the hang of it so that any one attempt isn't a whole week's work to see how it comes out. I know that testing pen effects and shading techniques, it helped me a lot to work on little two or three inch wide sketches till I got comfortable with the toning method before tackling big projects that take a long time stippling or hatching.

Hatching lines when curved can go around the 3D shapes of spheres or faces or anything rounded. If the hatching line ends in a dotted line that starts to be great shading. I actually learned that as a little kid looking at old style postage stamps. The engravers' techniques of line shading work fantastic in pen. Stamps are also why I got into doing pen miniatures with very fine point pens, because as a boy I thought the artists actually drew Washington's face only half an inch wide and just tried to get that precision. Real little, I didn't even understand they penciled first!
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Old 12-14-2015, 07:04 AM
JayJay365UK JayJay365UK is offline
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Re: newbie here

Quote:
Those are for three-step work: Pencil, then Ink, then Color. Then if it would help, added final pen details. That's the way I usually work. Sometimes I will watercolor first and once in a great while slosh colors around, then try to pick out things in the random shapes with a pen.

Have you ever sloshed watercolors onto paper and then used crumpled cling film/ plastic food wrap on the top, Robert? Once it's dry (can take a couple of days), you can peel off the cling film and all sort of shapes are there to work on! I used to love doing that. Good to do if you have nothing firm in mind to work on!
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