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Old 06-16-2003, 07:21 PM
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fletch fletch is offline
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For those of us who thirst for information such as this, it is wonderful to have such a refreshing pool from which to drink.

Thank you so much for sharing with us.
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Old 07-18-2003, 03:25 PM
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Hi Johannes, thanks. It's really awesome that you put up this tutorial, I kept a whole page of notes.
What I find most interesting is that sometimes you use very plesant looking paintings(professional in most people's eyes) and point out its flaw, like the one with blue mountain and orange forrest(fig. 50something).
Thanks again.
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Old 07-28-2003, 07:50 PM
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Another one for my bookmark list. Thanks Teanne
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Old 07-30-2003, 08:56 PM
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Hi Johannes! Thanks for such a great job in collecting and presenting all these wonderful tips on landscape composition. It's great to have them all in one handy compilation. The illustrations really help to make it easier to remember the various tips. Sometimes it's easier to remember the image rather than the text of a "rule" or recommendation.

I'm curious about one thing though. Although all these "rules" or tips are very valuable in developing a composition, -- I don't feel they are all equally valuable. I was wondering if you could give us a short list --maybe 5 or 10--of the "rules" or tips that in your opinion are the most significant and critical in creating a good composition? Reference could be by number (eg. tip #5) or just a brief identification of the substance of the tip. I also have book-marked this site, and am going to make myself a "Checklist" form and print out copies of it so I can analyze my older paintings, and more importantly, --use it for new paintings as I move from subject selection into concept and design of the new painting. Your listing is one of the best I have seen. Another good one is "Composition Made Easy" by William Palluth. (A Walter Foster Book).

Thanks again for an extremely useful tutorial!
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Old 08-06-2003, 09:18 PM
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Well, I just found this...and it's wonderful. Funny, I knew many of them, but of course, not all. I especially like your advice on not being a slave to nature....exaggerating the distance fade, etc. I am going to give landscapes another try. Larry helped me with my first one, which was still pretty pathetic even after his advice. But that was a year ago....wish me luck!
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Old 09-26-2003, 01:18 PM
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That's a very good teaching. Certainly it will improve my composition. Thank you.
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Old 11-15-2003, 09:08 AM
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Thumbs up Very good clause!

Very good clause!
And what perfect works! A thank!
very informative.
I know it for a long time in the theory. And in practice not always it turns out.
With pleasure I shall re-read again
I wish to you good luck in all
Artbars
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Old 11-17-2003, 01:47 PM
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Great tips....
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Old 01-03-2004, 04:46 PM
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WWWOOOOOWWWW!!!! Ok This article was exactly what I was looking for. This has put direction into my landscape project as well as answered alot of questions and ponderings I had about what colors and compositional layout to use. Thank You.
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Old 02-05-2004, 10:37 PM
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Re: Landscape Composition Rules

Excellent article! Thoroughly enjoyed reading . Will try to apply all that I read.Thanks!
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Old 11-16-2004, 06:32 AM
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Thumbs up Re: Landscape Composition Rules

I am a new member of wetcanvas, also i just took up painting a few month ago. As I am trying landscapes right now i found this tutorial from Johannes very informative. It answers a whole lot of questions for me. Thank you Johannes for taking the time to write the tutorial. I will have this bookmarked so i can refer to it in future.
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Old 11-26-2004, 01:27 AM
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Re: Landscape Composition Rules

Thank you so very much for this fantastic tutorial, I read every page and learned so much. And thanks TeAnne for reminding me this valuable tutorial was there for the reading here in WC
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Old 12-07-2004, 03:42 PM
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King Rundzap King Rundzap is offline
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Re: Landscape Composition Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynxes123
Thank you so very much for this fantastic tutorial, I read every page and learned so much. And thanks TeAnne for reminding me this valuable tutorial was there for the reading here in WC

I finally read through the whole thing and I think it's awful. I don't think there was one example painting for "better" or "worse", "correct" or "incorrect", "right" or "wrong" for which I agreed with the criticisms. If I have to be tutored in what someone is looking for in an artwork to know whether they're going to think it's "right" or "wrong", I don't think there's something problematic with my viewing/assessment, it seems like there's something wrong with the theory of what is better or worse.

For example, imagine that you're talking to Frank, who is telling you short anecdotes. You think everything is going fine. Frank is a fine conversationalist, in your view, with interesting things to say, etc.

However, I enter the scenario and when Frank says some things, I say, "Wrong", and others, "Right". You start thinking "what the heck?"

So I take you aside and say:
* "It's wrong to say 'the' more than fifteen times during the course of an anecdote, it's better to say it less than ten times."
* "Do not start anecdotes with sentences longer than nine words--it gives the impression that it's going to hinge on alcohol consumption"
* "The 'punch line' of an anecdote should contain proper nouns, or it sounds amateurish"

and so on . . .

Now, is there really something wrong with the way Frank is talking, or is there something very strange about my theory of anecdotes? Suppose that there are a number of people who have been schooled in my theory of anecdotes, and who follow it because they were taught that it was the right way to tell anecdotes, but most people are hardly aware of this, and thought that anecdote-telling was fine if the first sentence was longer than nine words, etc. Does that give my theory of anecdotes more weight? Does it suggest that you should also start believing that there is something wrong with the way Frank is talking?

That's how I see the supposed "rules" of composition. I'm no stranger to art--I've immersed myself in viewing artworks for almost 40 years, even if I've only been creating visual artworks for less than 10 of those years. The supposed problems cited in the article bear no resemblance to anything I've ever thought as a viewer of artworks. I don't see indoctrinating more people into something like the "theory of anecdotes" as a good thing. And if indoctrination isn't needed--if it's naturally the way most people look at art, and there's just something very weird about the way I look at it (although that's difficult to believe, since I have no other acquaintances who look at art that way, at least as far as I know, and it's something I talk to many people about)--then it hardly needs a laundry list of principles behind it. They would be clear by just looking at artworks and thinking about them.

[Added Later:] Or, here's another good example, from a real life experience. I once dated a woman from Laos who, among many other customs/beliefs that seemed a bit strange to me, believed that one should not dry both the top and bottom of their body with the same towel after a shower. To her, it was wrong to do this, and would apparently lead to bad results. Now, I don't know if that is a statistically normal belief for Laotians, or Laotian Buddhists, etc., but I had never thought that it was bad to dry oneself after a shower with just a single towel, and the fact that I discovered someone who believed this didn't lead me to thinking, "Geez, maybe I shouldn't use just one towel". Instead, I thought, "Geez, that's kinda wacky".

In other words, to repeat an earlier point in this post, if I have to be tutored in what someone else considers right or wrong for some custom, behavior, etc.--something that I've thought was fine for many years and never had a problem with--I don't see it as my problem that I think it's fine, but as a problem with the theory that it's not fine.

To me, the "rules" of art such as presented in this article, and as presented elsewhere (and this doesn't just go for visual art, by the way), are little better than such superstitions/customs, and they're not anything that anyone would pick up on naturally--they're cultural artifacts, of a very narrow culture. They may be interesting as such, in a kind of anthropological study, but I wouldn't recommend joining the cult :-)

Last edited by King Rundzap : 12-07-2004 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 12-07-2004, 06:43 PM
henrik henrik is offline
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Re: Landscape Composition Rules

Although I don't think this is the right place to have a debate about composition (love to continue this elsewhere) - I think what we are trying to preach in this forum is that the so called "rules" are not absolutes and does not tell you right from wrong - they do however point out consequences of certain design decisions and what you may want to do if you do not like the effect.

For instance; say that you have a dualism in your design where both shapes have equal visual weight. This typically leads to a ping-pong effect. Do you want the effect - keep it - else don't.
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Old 12-07-2004, 06:46 PM
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Re: Landscape Composition Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Rundzap
For example, imagine that you're talking to Frank, who is telling you short anecdotes. You think everything is going fine. Frank is a fine conversationalist, in your view, with interesting things to say, etc.

However, I enter the scenario and when Frank says some things, I say, "Wrong", and others, "Right". You start thinking "what the heck?"

So I take you aside and say:
* "It's wrong to say 'the' more than fifteen times during the course of an anecdote, it's better to say it less than ten times."
* "Do not start anecdotes with sentences longer than nine words--it gives the impression that it's going to hinge on alcohol consumption"
* "The 'punch line' of an anecdote should contain proper nouns, or it sounds amateurish"

and so on . . .


King Rudzap,
If I understand you correctly, your anology just does not work. Dale Carnagie Institute has made millions teaching communication skills to an industry interested in teaching its employee's to communicate better and increase productivity in a economic sense.

Comedians perfect through hard work and goal setting the composition and delivery of thier craft. To an audience that is very particular.

There are proven ways to present words, financial information, jokes and other forms of communication. (art)

Do new methods come into vogue? Yes! But most new methods fail. Imagine taking it the other way from your example.
Tell the same anecdote by leaving out every other word. Well its okay, because that's the way you want to tell it? Yes according to your account, but people listening wont get much from it. But go ahead if thats what you want.
Composition helps to communicate to a audiance that understands by methods. If you intend to paint to an audiance and convey a message, you have to talk thier language.

By the way:
Composition is defined as:
The noun "objective"
aim, object, objective, target -- (the goal intended to be attained (and which is believed to be attainable)

The adjective "objective"


objective -- (emphasizing or expressing things as perceived without distortion of personal feelings or interpretation; "objective art")

This is closest to what I think you believe I am guessing since in your own bio you say "and decided to try painting without worrying what the results would look like."
So by the noun, objective, you have no goal. So when do you stop? And what do your audiance walk away with?
Note there is no mention of "rules" in my explanation.

One final example: I dont think there is anything wrong with this. Do you?

aseiaehaega]q38130ao'giq48w4=09quv=268q=0u2=0w48
e4-87t284y6m0w4896uw495y8u3w4985yuwb4-968w4trh
r
w
434
3[0w4t78vf9[p8e5yue4590yh

Now if I am trying to write a thesis on relativity I think I just might get a failing grade from most if not all professors. Unless I find one that does not believe in ultimate right and wrong.

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