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Old 06-16-2019, 07:22 AM
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Monichetta Monichetta is offline
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

And yes, I did let her use my Ďrealí PO49 Quin Gold for her ladyís skirt. Lucky girl!

Today, while rooting around the tube paints collection for the purpose of this new palette, I found some buried treasure! A full tube of Sennelierís Yellow Lake- labelled PY153 + PO49! I donít remember how I come to own it, but it was a nice surprise. Hmmmm put it in a 9yoís palette, or sell it on eBay?
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Old 06-16-2019, 12:15 PM
Macarona Macarona is online now
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

I thought that you could show us some of their pictures she had painted. I've messed things up a bit, English is not my main language.
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Stay calm you can not protect all people from mistakes they make. They should also be allowed to learn from mistakes and gain experience. Especially financial mistakes. Keep calm, you can not prevent that there are not only reasonable suggestions from people. Especially on the subject: only try and how long. Important topic: Please Save the Internet, that we can still share a lot of knowledge. # No articles 11 and 13!!!
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Old 06-16-2019, 01:24 PM
DaveCrow DaveCrow is offline
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

One teal I absolutely love is American Journey "June Bug" available from Cheap Joe's. It is a mix of Prussian Blue and Pthalo Green (PB27/PG7). It is similar to Prussian Blue (green shade). It is transparent, staining, and non-granulating.
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Old 06-16-2019, 08:51 PM
mgarcia51 mgarcia51 is offline
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

Monichetta, although I don't have any palette recommendations, I do want to chime in about art supplies for kids.

I've been "guiding" a budding artist for the last 2 1/2 years; he's now 11 years old. He's completed 73 watercolor paintings at my home and several on his own at home.

When he's here, we use cotton paper and professional grade paints. We started out with color theory very early on, and he now loves mixing different combos. I've also taught him about pigment codes vs names, paint characteristics, and lightfast vs fugitive paints. He loves the scientific aspect of painting as well as the creative process.

So, I agree with you about sticking to and educating about lightfast paints.

And love the photo of your daughter and her painting.


Maria
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Old 06-17-2019, 04:33 AM
Nessamelda Nessamelda is offline
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

If you want to look like Davenport, then itís easier if you use one of her palettes. Especially for a kid for whom colour mixing might not be the most exciting thing in the world, yet. Getting those pinks and magentas can be tricky without using fugitive colours-Iíve played with similar palettes with gouache where there are even more fugitive colours on sale.

It depends what the aim of the exercise is really. If she wants everything she paints to be potentially saleable, then yes she needs to use light safe colours (although if I was buying pieces from a 9 year old I would not expect anything more than student colours to be used). If she wants to just have fun , experiment and do art journaling in the Jane Davenport style where everything is safely kept in closed notebooks or digitized, then it matters less. My dad still has some paintings I did as a teenager 40 odd years ago on the wall, full of Alizarin crimson, in Winton watercolor or oils and they still look OK (colourwise anyway!).

Itís a good opportunity to educate her about lighfastness-maybe do some experiments with non colourfast paints in a window so she can see the difference for herself.
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Old 07-03-2019, 08:46 AM
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Nalatu Nalatu is offline
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvin_0
well, we do have a lot more ways to protect from UV then in the days of Van Gogh... plus a lot of lightfastness test are stimulated under direct sunlight.. as far as i know, nobody would display painting under direct sunlight...

The purpose of testing under direct sunlight is to accelerate the results. Otherwise you'd have to wait decades to see which paints were stable. No one expects artworks to be displayed in direct sunlight, but artworks made with paints that can survive 1 year of direct sunlight with minimal fading will likely stand up to indoor lighting for centuries.

Do keep in mind that watercolors have a reputation to repair. Historically, watercolors faded much worse than oils because they weren't protected by a layer of oil, thus they became known as less reliable and consequently less valuable. Even with all the improvements in pigments and UV protection, that reputation persists, with modern watercolors still selling for less than modern oils (even though oil painters are often more complacent about lightfastness than watercolorists nowadays). Even if you think no one will care about your art in 100+ years, watercolorists of the future depend on us to change that image of watercolors being fragile and unreliable. If you must use fugitive paints, please make sure you inform your buyers so they understand that if their painting fades it's not the medium's fault.
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Old 07-03-2019, 03:07 PM
Macarona Macarona is online now
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

I have had some colour strips of different painting materials behind my window for 1 1/2 years.
The window has 3 layers and therefore most colours are not faded after such a time, also not fugitive watercolour paints like the three brilliant colours of Schmincke.
The only colours faded after a few days were cheaper watercolour pencils for children and dye-based watercolours.
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Stay calm you can not protect all people from mistakes they make. They should also be allowed to learn from mistakes and gain experience. Especially financial mistakes. Keep calm, you can not prevent that there are not only reasonable suggestions from people. Especially on the subject: only try and how long. Important topic: Please Save the Internet, that we can still share a lot of knowledge. # No articles 11 and 13!!!
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:25 PM
briantmeyer briantmeyer is offline
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalatu
The purpose of testing under direct sunlight is to accelerate the results. Otherwise you'd have to wait decades to see which paints were stable. No one expects artworks to be displayed in direct sunlight, but artworks made with paints that can survive 1 year of direct sunlight with minimal fading will likely stand up to indoor lighting for centuries.

It is based on the amount of light, or lumen energy which hits the pigment.

If you have a given amount of lumens, it might take 100 years from a dim light bulb, or just a day from the sun, they affect color in a predictable manner. It does not matter if its all on one day, or slowly, or if its intermittant over a million years, at a given point the light causes chemical/physical changes in the substance its hitting which we see as fading. Its not time, its the amount of light energy, which is energy which causes change in what its hitting for whatever reason.

In this chart, a Megalux is a million Lux, a lux is a lumen hitting a square meter. Just another way of describing the actual amount of light.



This is well known, and they have paintings 100 years and older, and the prediction of this is well proven. The irises by van gogh, good example, the photos of it show a grayish background, but he used red organic lake pigment, ( alizarin is a similar organic lake pigment ).
Watch the video for before and after ->
https://www.metmuseum.org/metmedia/v...ises-and-roses

Note that other substances, ozone and pollution for example, make this more complicated, but substances that are inert chemically, like dirt and rust, tend to be light fast, substances that are organic, like alizarin lakes tend to want to fade.

Last edited by briantmeyer : 07-03-2019 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 07-04-2019, 01:11 AM
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Undergoose Undergoose is offline
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

Good Lord.

There is NO reason to exclude an artist, whatever their age, from the knowledge of pigments.

There are TONS of brilliant, lightfast pigments available that will pique the interest of any artist.

The only fugitive pigment I know of that isn't really easy to reproduce is most manufacturer's versions of Opera. It's a wonderfully bright pink when you first lay it down, but it has the same lightfast characteristics as any random highlighter pen.

For crying out loud...we all grew up with Prang-level watercolor kits. If we'd have had real paper instead of stupid pulp-brown color books, we'd all be much more advanced.

There is NO reason or excuse to subject a young artist to fugitive pigments, if you really want to introduce them to producing real art.

Any young child who has any sort of artistic lean will quickly pick up the concepts of color mixing (Crayola red + blue = purple).

"Whimsical" is a state of mind, not a box full of specific colors.

Set her up with a decent palette full of real colors. Don't pawn off your fugitive colors onto her! I have artwork to this day from when I was nine years old. What a pity if it had been created with colors that might have faded away.

There is NO excuse for using garbage pigments, even while practicing, IMO. You never know when you're going to splash something amazing onto your paper. How sad if the end result is that it will just disappear.

If you truly need help building a whimsical palette, let me know, and I can list a couple dozen colors for you. As can any decent artist on this site.
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Old 07-04-2019, 09:53 AM
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CharM CharM is offline
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

Karl, you said very emphatically what many of us agree with. I simply do not understand why some Artists insist on defending those pigments that are known to be fugitive.

I do think that our O.P. has this in hand and also believes that good quality materials matter. Children are not second class Artists... and we all began at the beginning at some point. Doing that with the best materials we can afford, regardless of age, matters!
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