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Old 08-08-2014, 07:48 PM
callidoc callidoc is offline
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Re: Calligraphy Online Tutorials

Here are the remaining words from Lesson 3:







David
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Old 08-08-2014, 07:58 PM
callidoc callidoc is offline
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Re: Calligraphy Online Tutorials

Content deleted. Duplicate of preceding post.

David

Last edited by callidoc : 08-08-2014 at 08:01 PM. Reason: Duplicate post
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Old 08-08-2014, 09:22 PM
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salman.khattak salman.khattak is offline
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Re: Calligraphy Online Tutorials

David - this is very well done. Nothing glaringly wrong but a bunch of minor issues.

- Your nib angle is becoming steep on the long verticals e.g. in 'b', 'h', 'k' etc.

- The bottom of the 'f' trails to the left - very much like the 'j'.

- You are losing the sharp point in the gothic arches at both the tops and bottoms of the letters - see bottoms of 'l' & 't' in 'left jars', tops of 'm' and 'k' in 'tram break'.

- The wavy style ascender for the 'd' in 'hordes' should not go to left of the first bullhorn.

- The 'b' in 'badge' is leaning to the right.

- Last but not least, the bottoms of your letters have tendency to stop short of the base line - make sure you actually cover the baseline, not just touch it.


You do not need to repeat the exercise for these but do keep an eye on them for your final composition. One thing we have not talked a lot about is the spacing. Your spacing is generally quite good and consistent but you need to pay special attention to it for the 'be not afraid...' exercise.

Salman

Edit: added the last nit.
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Last edited by salman.khattak : 08-08-2014 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 08-08-2014, 10:36 PM
callidoc callidoc is offline
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Re: Calligraphy Online Tutorials

Salman,

Thanks for your critique.

I've been struggling trying to get good sharp arches on the inside without the outside line of the letters being too angular. (I hope that makes sense!) I had a complete set of examples I rejected because I thought the curves were too angular. I have done it the way I think is correct, that is, as I see Geoff's exemplars, but not consistently.

I'm also aware of the problems the the ascenders, both the nib angle and the line angle. When I "try too hard" and get tense, it only gets worse. Well, I know what to do. I just need to keep working at it.

I didn't know the convention regarding the "wavy" ascender of the d. Thanks.

I may want to show you some additional examples of these words - at least the problem letters - to see if I have correctly understood your instructions.

David
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Old 08-09-2014, 10:29 PM
callidoc callidoc is offline
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Re: Calligraphy Online Tutorials

I believe by the "'be not afraid' exercise," you meant the "be not preoccupied ..." Chinese proverb. In any event, that's what I worked on today.





Problems I see:
1. The initial b is a bit sloppy in the reverse bull horn.
2. I am having a frequent problem with the crispness of the final turn on the baseline with n's and sometimes other letters. I'll work on this.
3. The counter shape of the p's is not right. I just noticed this after scanning .
4. I am having a problem producing the final "curved flick" (I think that's what Geoff called it.) on the s. I can produce it by a change in direction of the stroke at the end, but not as a hairline, going up on the left corner of the nib. Which technique is correct?

On the positive side:
1. I think the gothic arches are generally sharper.
2. I think the counter sizes of the a's and g's are smaller (better).
3. Fewer vertical strokes are leaning. Maybe the f in the 2nd line.

Letter spacing is mixed, both within some words and from one word to another. I think I did pretty well with some difficult spacing issues - the ly sequence and the double l in still. I see the o and t being too close in not, as are the i and l in still. But I think inconsistency is the biggest problem. Any helpful hints on spacing with gothic bâtarde?

One thing you may not be able to tell is that, today, my writing of this script is faster, more confident and less frustrating. I am better able to think about a letter form before putting pen to paper and then suspending conscious intentionality. Lloyd Reynolds called this "getting your mind out of the way of your hand." I'm happy about that, even though there is still a lot that needs work.

I'll await your answers to my questions and any additional comments.

David
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Old 08-10-2014, 02:55 PM
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salman.khattak salman.khattak is offline
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Re: Calligraphy Online Tutorials

David - your observations are spot-on - can't think of adding anything. You have a very good understanding of spacing issues - which is good because that is what this exercise is about :-)

The top stroke of the 's' is finished off with the corner of the nib. If you are having trouble with it, lift your pen at the end of the stroke, then place the edge of the nib in the little pool of ink at the end and draw the curved hairline. Practice this stroke in isolation to gain control.

Batarde is quite forgiving in terms of inter-letter and inter-word spacing. In addition to this you can superimpose the bowl letters to tighten things up where needed. These can be used to balance out your composition. Keep letter and word spacing more or less uniform on the line (letter spacing should never vary within a word). It is ok to vary them from line to line in the same composition. This is where your judgement will come into play in determining how much variation looks ok.

Treat the above as a composition in two or three lines. You can cut off strips of paper with the words written on them and play with the arrangement until you are happy with it. Then replicate it after the placement and spacing has been figured out.

Take the work at your pace. I'm in no hurry :-)

Salman
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Old 08-10-2014, 08:55 PM
callidoc callidoc is offline
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Re: Calligraphy Online Tutorials

Salman,

This probably is not my ultimate submission of the saying, but I want to see how the longer lines enlarged and how they display.

I decided I prefer a three line version, divided as below and center justified. I think that's the way it would look best, but it does present me with some additional challenges that left justification would have avoided.




Hmmm ... My inclination would be to relax spacing in "standing" to get that last line centered better (as well as improve a few individual letter imperfections).

Any additional comments regarding either the concept or the execution?

David
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:42 PM
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salman.khattak salman.khattak is offline
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Re: Calligraphy Online Tutorials

David - this is a nice try. Watch out for the variation in letter spacing- it should not change on the same line. The spacing in 'standing' is a bit too tight but don't use that to center your text - write out the whole of line 3 with a spacing you like and then figure out where you should start in order to center it - ditto for line 2.

The composition should not have any dark or light areas that stand out. In this case since you are centering each line, there is no real need to vary the spacing - it is useful to do that if your composition needs to be fully justified.

It takes a bit of work but have fun with it - its a great feeling when things start falling in place.

Salman
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Old 08-11-2014, 09:37 PM
callidoc callidoc is offline
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Re: Calligraphy Online Tutorials

Here is another iteration. I am going to withhold my own comments to give you a clean shot at it. (Well, I will note the obvious - the truant comma.)



David

P.S. I did this and uploaded it before seeing your last message. Maybe I should try it left justified and concentrate on consistent letter spacing before trying a centered version again.

Last edited by callidoc : 08-11-2014 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 08-12-2014, 01:40 PM
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salman.khattak salman.khattak is offline
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Re: Calligraphy Online Tutorials

David - my observations:

Spacing:

- Line 1: Letter spacing is consistent except for r-e where the last stroke of the 'r' is a bit too long. However, the word spacing is off. The 'be not' are further apart than 'not preoccupied'.

- Line 2: Letter spacing in 'slowly' is more relaxed than going. 'of going' are further apart than 'going slowly'.

- Line 3: Letter spacing in 'only' is more relaxed than 'standing still'. Word spacing also varies - more space between 'only of standing' than in 'standing still'.

Letter forms:

- The 'r' in preoccupied shouldn't have the last stroke go so far to the right - forces the next letter too far away.
- The two c's in preoccupied should be identical. It doesn't matter that one is joined with the previous letter.
- The shield like counter in the last 'g' doesn't look like a shield. (look at the lovely shield counter you have in the very next 's' - the g's should be the same shape and orientation - only bigger)

One more attempt and then we are on to the majuscules.

Salman
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Old 08-12-2014, 08:45 PM
callidoc callidoc is offline
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Re: Calligraphy Online Tutorials

Salman,

Thanks very much for your comments!

I'm going to be away until next week, so we both get a bit of a break, at least from this. I'll be back in harness next week.

Regards,

David
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:37 PM
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salman.khattak salman.khattak is offline
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Re: Calligraphy Online Tutorials

Good luck on your trip David.

Salman
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