Home Forums Explore Media Oil Painting The Technical Forum The Zorn Palette

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #480776
    Linogryzka
    Default

        Hi, I would like to ask you aboout the Zorn palette.
        I want to paint alla prima on a toned canvas. I use schmincke mussini paints.
        I have bought the following colors, but I am not sure if they will work since two of them are not opaque:
        Titanium opaque white (PW6, PW4)
        Transparent Yellow Oxide (PY42)
        Brilliant Scarlet (PR242) (semi-transparent)
        Mineral Black (PBk28)

        What do you think abut this selection? Would it be easier to work with opaque paint?

        #912771
        Humbaba
        Default

            The Zorn Palette is a myth, the colors you list, by themselves, will need a longer list to work properly Alla Prima.

            #912772
            Jeffro Jones
            Default

                What do you think abut this selection? Would it be easier to work with opaque paint?

                Probably, yes. I suggest:
                Zinc or lead white. Titanium is way too domineering a white for the subtle tonal shifts of the Zorn style.
                Yellow Ochre, more opaque than Transparent Yellow Oxide.
                Cadmium Red Light, again, not transparent.
                Ivory or Lamp Black. Mineral black is way too potent for subtle mixes.

                Bear in mind that Zorn’s painting, while often in a restrictive colour range, DID use brighter tones of blue, green and yellow when he felt like it :)

                Here’s a self-portrait with palette:

                What a painter :)

                :::

                #912767
                AnnieA
                Default

                    I was taught a variation, the Chromatic Zorn Palette which is able to produce a wider gamut of color. The black in this palette is W&N Artist Oils Blue-Black, which you might find to be a more useful black for the traditional Zorn palette as well.

                    Also, if you intend to paint permanent pieces, you might want to research before using Zinc white, since studies have shown a tendency of paint films that employ it to crack, although there are many paintings made with Zinc white that are just fine.

                    [FONT=Arial]C&C always welcome ©[/I] [/font]
                    [FONT=Palatino]
                    “Life is a pure flame and we live by an invisible sun within us.” ― Sir Thomas Browne [/size][/font]

                    http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/29-Jul-2007/85002-sig-thumbnail_composite_2.jpg]/img]

                    #912773
                    Jeffro Jones
                    Default

                        since studies have shown a tendency of paint films that employ it to crack, although there are many paintings made with Zinc white that are just fine.

                        The issue is delamination, and seems to be an issue with unmodified Zinc White underpainting on flexible supports.
                        Many of us (myself included) use Zinc White in mixtures without any problem.
                        I have experienced delamination in old canvases, and reasonably suspect large areas of Zinc White underpainting as a culprit.
                        That is a very specific thing though, a painter might never ever do that, and its much more important to just paint something than to worry about EVERY LITTLE THING.

                        The MITRA conservation forums are a good source of expert information on this and other archival subjects, if we must worry :)

                        https://www.artcons.udel.edu/mitra/forums

                        :::

                        #912765
                        Delofasht
                        Default

                            Answered this in another version of this thread somewhere, but I would grab a Yellow Ochre and Broght red from Winsor and Newton, because they are inexpensive and fill the purpose of the paint. I use Azo Coral from M Graham for my red because I had it readily available and free.

                            Other notes brought up here refer to the overpowering nature of Titanium White, which is definitely a problem is used directly and in excessive amounts. However, if you just calculate using about one tenth of the Titanium white as you would Lead or Zinc white, then you have effectively adjusted for the sheer intensity of Titanium white. That said, another route is to simply add an extender to your titanium white to reduce it’s incredible power, but this is only necessary if you happen to be particularly bad at gauging your white usage (like me!).

                            - Delo Delofasht
                            #912768
                            AnnieA
                            Default

                                One other possibility for a white might be Holbein’s Ceramic White[/URL], made of Strontium Titianate, a paint which is said to be less opaque than titanium but more opaque than zinc. I’ve used it on occasion and find it less chalky, which is a plus for my work. I don’t know about how that fits with the Zorn palette though.

                                There’s also Williamsburg Porcelain White[/URL], made of Lithopone and ground in Safflower. Lukas also makes a Lithopone white, in both artist and student grade, which is considerably cheaper than the other alternative whites I’ve mentioned. For some reason, they call it “Opaque White,” which is odd since it’s supposedly less transparent than the typical Titanium. I’ve never used a lithopone white, but perhaps someone else here can advise.

                                [FONT=Arial]C&C always welcome ©[/I] [/font]
                                [FONT=Palatino]
                                “Life is a pure flame and we live by an invisible sun within us.” ― Sir Thomas Browne [/size][/font]

                                http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/29-Jul-2007/85002-sig-thumbnail_composite_2.jpg]/img]

                                #912766

                                More than the palette, if you want to emulate Zorn’s technique, the point is 1) to carefully adjust earth colors and greys whether they are cold or warm, 2) also be precise when you set the value of your colors.
                                In fact the same tips than if you are interested in Rembrandt’s technique…

                                #912776

                                My quick answer is try the paints you purchased on the surface and ground tone / color that you intend to use. Make swatches and test them for workability. You will probably eventually need more opaque pigments, so why not get some. Cadmiums are typical but I understand there are modern substitutes that work as well.

                                To consider (not a quick answer):

                                Painting subjects. Portraits, Landscapes, Nudes ?

                                The brightness of your painting surface. (white or toned). Transparent colors will work quite differently on a toned surface than on a bright white. Think watercolor techniques.

                                The “Zorn” limited palette should not be taken to literally. The paints (color names ) that Zorn used are probably not the same as what is now available.
                                I find that paint “color name” varies considerably between MFGs in both pigments used, the processing of the pigments, and concentration of them.

                                Pigments Linogryzka listed:

                                Modern Titanium white is good for most mixing. I agree with Delo, just use less. Zinc white is good for cooler hues. I use both, and a premixed white with both.

                                The pigment PY42 (yellow iron oxide) is commonly used in yellow ochre. Some paint MFGs use PY43 or some use both in their yellow earth color. You Might check how transparent is the Mussini color?

                                PR242 is semi transparent on the orange side, so some violets may be difficult to achieve. Also, for a warm very deep dark, it will need to mix well with your black. Again test for results.

                                PBk28 Copper Chromite Black, is not so common a pigment in oils. Test this paint with each of the other three pigments to see What kind of greys you get. Depends on the “BLUENESS” :confused: quality. If it lacks in blue, I would try a more blueish black (?) or add Ultramarine Deep PB29 to your palette.
                                I find that blacks vary considerably between MFGs. I think mixing a Chromatic black is more controllable and works better for me. I got tired of dealing with variances in what some “blacks” do in mixes.

                                #912769
                                Dcam
                                Default
                                    #912775
                                    Richard P
                                    Default

                                        You might even get away with Prussian Blue instead of a black. It’s very dark in masstone, but makes more chromatic blues and greens than a carbon black.

                                        #912770
                                        Dcam
                                        Default
                                            #912778
                                            Linogryzka
                                            Default

                                                Hi, thanks for so many replies!

                                                I will buy yellow ochre and vermillion or cad red light from schmincke. I was wondering if i could mix resin-oil schmincke mussini paints with a schmincke norma series, which doesn’t contain resin?
                                                I have heard that zinc white might cause cracking and forms a less durable paint film than titanium. I would like to stick with titanium. Maybe adding some oil to it would make it more workable for this palette. What do you think?

                                                #912777

                                                The Mussini Titanium opaque white (PW6, PW4) that you listed is apparently already a mixture of Titanium (PW6) and Zinc (PW4) whites. Most of the better MFGs. Will list the pigment code nos. On the tubes.
                                                A good website for pigments info. http://www.artiscreation.com/white.html#natural_pigments

                                                #912774
                                                Jeffro Jones
                                                Default

                                                    What do you think?

                                                    I think that Titanium White was introduced as a painters pigment the year after Zorn died.

                                                    :::

                                                  Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)
                                                  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.