WetCanvas
Home Member Services Content Areas Tools Info Center WC Partners Shop Help
Channels:
Search for:
in:

Welcome to the WetCanvas forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit our help center.

Go Back   WetCanvas > Explore Media > Oil Painting > The Technical Forum
User Name
Password
Register Mark Forums Read

Salute to our Partners
WC! Sponsors

Our Sponsors
Reply  
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-08-2019, 09:24 AM
j1a j1a is offline
New Member
New York
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 12
 
Matte Medium instead of dry acrylic gesso

Hi, I'd like to use something different than the chaulk gesso because I have found that it can be re wet and turn back into liquid, flake off, wet and wiped off, crack, etc.

I have preprimed universal roll linen canvas to begin with and want to raise the level to rid of threads and bumps. So in net search I see more about using matte medium as an alternative.

What I'd like to know is:
- If it is re wet will it come off
- Has anyone noted that if a drip on the container flake off, can you crack a tiny piece in half,
- does it adhere well to commercial preprimed surface as described
- using 6b pencil to sketch, can it be wiped off with q-tip and moisture after (with universal this can be done)
- any good technical observation of oil to matte medium adhesion archivalness

Also - Different subject): So many people write of this and question about oils over acrylics, but not acrylics over oils and why. In the past, I came across a description of how this person used a microscope and could see how dry acrylic paint looked like tiny little balls (like a bunch of tennis balls in a box) in which like scoring clay and pressing wet clay in to it, it will lock in like a key - but more from the extra pressure squish) but so as with oil paint, it flows into those gap channels, and locks in when dry. This is why. Oil drys flat - nothing can get in, rides on surface.

Thanks for your help! J
Reply With Quote
  #2   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-08-2019, 09:56 AM
Delofasht's Avatar
Delofasht Delofasht is offline
Immortalized
Town of George, Kentucky
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,059
 
Hails from United States
Re: Matte Medium instead of dry acrylic gesso

A moment here, I have never had a gesso dissolve when exposed to water after it has fully cured. This curing should take a couple weeks at the least, if you are wetting it within a day or two of drying to the touch, then it really has not had enough time to fully cure.

As for matte medium vs chalk based acrylic priming dispersion (acrylic gesso), matte medium does work, and is fine overall, having enough tooth and solids content (silica if I recall correctly) to allow oil to fill the tooth created and make a good mechanical bond.

Dried oil films do have a very small tooth, it just so happens that it is so fine a tooth that the larger acrylic molecules cannot sink into it and create that mechanical bond.
__________________
- Delo

Delofasht
Reply With Quote
  #3   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-08-2019, 10:12 AM
j1a j1a is offline
New Member
New York
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 12
 
Re: Matte Medium instead of dry acrylic gesso

I wish if there is second gessoing that it could be like the preprimed roll and meld into it, and be exactly like it. What brand do you use? Have been curious about liquitex (professional), compared to their basics which I have but never used, and jerrys...

I don't mean to scare anyone - I'm going to experiment with the basics again, dry it well to the preprimed and test again, this is an old bottle, but can see it is stretchier than I thought, maybe I'll try the professional grade liquitex if even this works...

ps - the pre observations came from a few weeks of drying, but with the chalkier...

Last edited by j1a : 11-08-2019 at 10:43 AM. Reason: adding thoughts
Reply With Quote
  #4   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-08-2019, 12:41 PM
Delofasht's Avatar
Delofasht Delofasht is offline
Immortalized
Town of George, Kentucky
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,059
 
Hails from United States
Re: Matte Medium instead of dry acrylic gesso

When it comes to acrylic gesso, I have almost always used Liquitex professional, as I find it takes less layers and formed a better resulting surface. Never had it come loose or dissolve at all, even with vigorous scrubbing with water or solvents, once it has fully cured of course.

This sounds more like an issue I have had with some pre-primed surfaces I have worked n in the past having some kind of invisible lubricant added over the priming to keep the packaging that the surface came in from sticking to the surface itself. I have used rubbing alcohol to remove such lubricants from the surface, which made for a much more accepting surface, to either acrylic gesso or other paints.

Now days I tend to just prime my own surfaces and avoid pre-primed ones unless it is for a specific client (who I always do work on the same brand of panel).
__________________
- Delo

Delofasht
Reply With Quote
  #5   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-08-2019, 02:18 PM
j1a j1a is offline
New Member
New York
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 12
 
Re: Matte Medium instead of dry acrylic gesso

Thank you! This sounds good. I kept looking after this, and also emailed liquitex about it. They also have matte medium liquid and wondered if that should go on first over preprimed layer, but thinking no. And, if the matte medium can be used in place of pva size, then do the liquitex gesso layers. I tried doing my own linen a while back and just decided to go for the pre made. But, lots of hair and dents from rollers, would like to try again at some point.
Reply With Quote
  #6   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-09-2019, 12:10 PM
contumacious contumacious is online now
Lord of the Arts
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 2,964
 
Re: Matte Medium instead of dry acrylic gesso

It sounds like you might enjoy painting on an alkyd ground.....
Reply With Quote
  #7   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-09-2019, 03:42 PM
j1a j1a is offline
New Member
New York
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 12
 
Re: Matte Medium instead of dry acrylic gesso

Hi Contumacious , I know of winsor newton I've experimented with, and since I use oils I know how it's pushed a little to use oil ground, and would like that too. But, for the health of it, and from my first free styles oil on preprimed (cotton, didn't know about linen back then) when I was in my teens, I have still today the same paintings that the oil has adhered to exactly the same and have tried picking at even with a pin, very nice, flat, varnished, still white paint white, colors bright, (another even rolled that was just from paint playing around, and tossed around through travels in life), and wanting the frame, another not varnished - the oil paint has really stuck all this time... I made this decision to not use oil ground...They've kept this long and as long as my coming up for public ones are handled nicely, I'll let be as that... I do really wish I could, but the health issue bothered me from long term effect of lung and heart situations.

Last edited by j1a : 11-09-2019 at 03:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-09-2019, 07:42 PM
j1a j1a is offline
New Member
New York
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 12
 
Re: Matte Medium instead of dry acrylic gesso

Want to Clarify This From First Post above: I was thinking about how it had time to dry and realized why : Because I live in a lower half-in-the-ground level apartment, I had a piece of primed on the floor in an area I don't walk, it is damp down there. There's a wall here between apartments that I put a frame on one night, on a nail, and it fell during the night because wall has dampness in it. Other walls are ok.

The past few days I've doing final experiments with glue, and using my glass top coffee table with lights underneath to dry heat things better, did this today with the practice gesso ( I ordered some Pro Liquitex yesterday), and even ironed it to see what happened - dryer on top mostly, figure more real time curing will do it....
Reply With Quote
  #9   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-10-2019, 04:00 AM
Richard P Richard P is online now
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,585
 
Re: Matte Medium instead of dry acrylic gesso

Yep, damp will stop the paint drying.

That amount of damp doesn't sound good for your health either though!
Reply With Quote
  #10   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-10-2019, 01:17 PM
Delofasht's Avatar
Delofasht Delofasht is offline
Immortalized
Town of George, Kentucky
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,059
 
Hails from United States
Re: Matte Medium instead of dry acrylic gesso

Richard is right, damp will affect the drying of paint films dramatically, so will cold. Consider getting a dehumidifier to assist with drying paints.
__________________
- Delo

Delofasht
Reply With Quote
  #11   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-13-2019, 07:32 PM
j1a j1a is offline
New Member
New York
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 12
 
Re: Matte Medium instead of dry acrylic gesso

1.I do have problems with damp here for myself (!) 2.One thing I'm glad for now too is exactly that - my large bedroom gets nice and toasty because the apartment complexes hot water tank for our building is next to my wall and it very dry in there, am using now to put test pieces in there too...(and the heats on now in here too from weather),...Waiting for that Liquitex pro, rechecked the oil primer over the J gesso (with water) - stays put so well. I can understand gesso between can be encapsulated, and straight on primer are the three ways, also layering paint but takes more time to dry and thicker oil layer over all... I guess I am a water tester maybe from being in here, land here is wet and muddyish , Thanks for your input and experiences...
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:57 AM.


© 2014 F+W All rights reserved.