Home › Forums › Explore Media › Watercolor › The Learning Zone › substitute for brown madder?
- This topic has 14 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 8 months ago by Shirl Parker.
-
AuthorPosts
-
July 2, 2010 at 11:34 pm #988710
I have subscribed to PaintPal and she uses Brown Madder a lot. I have looked at handprint but am having difficulty figuring out what to substitute, maybe burnt sienna? Any suggestions?
Lois - The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time--James Taylor
My Art Gallery http://www.art-3000.com/artist/?id=681July 3, 2010 at 12:44 am #1141443Hi Lois
Teh W&N Brown Madder is a Quinacridone pigment.
The closest matches in hue are Venesian Red, then Light Red and then Burnt Sienna, though all these are either Synthetic or natural iron oxide. So though they look similar, their physical properties would differ.
Venesian Red is almost identical in hue, but if you have none other then Burnt Sienna will work just great!
Enjoy!July 3, 2010 at 12:14 pm #1141441I’ve been using Brown Madder for over 20 years and I’ve yet to uncover a substitute. Combined with Antwerp Blue, I find it produces a variety of cool grays I find invaluable in mixing with other colours. When starting any new project, the first thing I do is mix up a strong pure colour in the well closest to either colour, then combine them to form my basic dark gray. Mind you, that’s an individual preference and it doesn’t make it “right”, just the way I work and from personal experience over the years it works for me. Brown Madder is a work-horse colour in my palette, as is Burnt Sienna and Ultramarine Blue. I’m sure many others do just as well with other favourites, and the problem with taking too many workshops is you seem to acquire a drawer full of exotic colours you rarely use when you get back to your own studio!
John
http://www.watercoloursforfun.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48486949@N07/sets/72157623714540290/July 3, 2010 at 3:46 pm #1141435Lois,
I agree with John. Brown Madder is a beautiful color unlike any of my other colors. It would be worth your while to buy a tube just to experience it and learn to use it in your paintings.Burnt Sienna has a more orange cast to it than Brown Madder. Its # is
PR 206 which is the same as WN Permanent Alizarin Crimson, but they look nothing alike. One site I looked at said this about brown madder: An alizarin crimson and diarylide yellow mix, but my tube of WN said it is a single pigment #PR206.John, That is a terrific suggestion about mixing up a gray from two of the colors in your painting right off the bat when you start a painting so it is readily available. :thumbsup:
Sylvia
July 3, 2010 at 10:43 pm #1141445It depends… are you going to use BM unmixed?, for dulling warm pigments? for graying blue hues…? for landscapes, for flesh tones?
Every historic fugitive pigment have some useful replacement in the modern chemistry.
WN Permanent Alizarin Crimson is PR N/A+ PR206..
WN Brown Madder is only PR206Stains on paperJuly 4, 2010 at 5:30 am #1141436Carlos,
According to Winsor & Newton’s watercolor chart, this is their description for both colors:
Color name: Permanent Alizarin Crimson
Color number/code: 466
Series number: 3
Chemical description: Quinacridone pyrrolidone, Quinacridone
Color index name: – , PR 206
Color index number: – 73920
Permanence rating: A – Permanentand
Color name: Brown Madder
Color number/code: 056
Series number: 1
Chemical description: Quinacridone
Color index name: PR 206
Color index number: 73920
Permanence rating: A – Permanent
ASTM lightfastness rating: N/LAccording to this, there is no problem with either one being fugitive any longer.
Sylvia
July 4, 2010 at 6:16 am #1141438W/N Light Red is very close in hue, more opaque
July 5, 2010 at 7:21 am #1141439Thanks everyone. I decided to go ahead and order some Brown Madder.
Lois - The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time--James Taylor
My Art Gallery http://www.art-3000.com/artist/?id=681July 6, 2010 at 1:17 pm #1141440Has anyone tried mixing Burnt Umber with Alizarin to get a near match ??
JuneFollow your Bliss and the Universe will open doors for you , where there were only walls. Joseph Campbell
July 6, 2010 at 11:26 pm #1141442I know that brown madder is one of Shirley Trevena’s favorite paint colors, and she describes it in one of her books as being “blood red.”
Personally, I think June’s suggestion to mix burnt umber and permanent alizarin crimson could result in a pretty close match.
Susan
July 7, 2010 at 3:21 am #1141444Daniel Smith’s Quinacridone Burnt Scarlet is also PR 206. The pigment is called quinacridone maroon.
July 8, 2010 at 3:56 am #1141448You won’t regret to go to Brown Madder, mix it with blues, especially with Ultramarine, it’ll give you beautiful range of purple grays. It’s very versatile. You can use it as pure hue or as a great mixer. My advice, go for it.
Daniel
"Art, like life, should be free, since both are experimental."
-George SantayanaJuly 8, 2010 at 8:53 pm #1141446You won’t regret to go to Brown Madder, mix it with blues, especially with Ultramarine, it’ll give you beautiful range of purple grays. It’s very versatile. You can use it as pure hue or as a great mixer. My advice, go for it.
Well, maybe he will regret in some years when the madder fades…
Stains on paperJuly 8, 2010 at 9:16 pm #1141437Carlos,
Check out the Permanence Rating below for Brown Madder. This is from Winsor & Newton’s site about their paints:Color name: Brown Madder
Color number/code: 056
Series number: 1
Chemical description: Quinacridone
Color index name: PR 206
Color index number: 73920
[COLOR=”Red]Permanence rating: A – Permanent[/COLOR]
ASTM lightfastness rating: N/LTo me, that indicates that it will not fade as it used to do in earlier times.
Sylvia
July 8, 2010 at 9:23 pm #1141447Carlos,
Check out the Permanence Rating below for Brown Madder. This is from Winsor & Newton’s site about their paints:To me, that indicates that it will not fade as it used to do in earlier times.
Sylvia
Oh i wasnt talking about WN Brown Madder i was talking about original Brown Madder….otherwise i did not get the initial question… why looking for a substitute of a Permanent Brown Madder like the one WN makes?
Stains on paper -
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Register For This Site
A password will be e-mailed to you.
Search